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amreekanSalafi
09-09-2002 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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[shubuhaat removed]

This message was edited by Admin on 7-18-03 @ 11:15 PM

Sunnah
09-09-2002 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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These claims above have been refuted already by Shaykh Rabee' bin Haadee al-Madkhalee, the Imaam of al-Jarh wat-Ta'deel and also Shaykh Faalih al-Harbee and others. Inshaa'allaah, comments will be added to this article to indicate the errors made in it.

This question was raised by some of the Juhhaal in the UK, in order to elicit a response by which those who refuted Abul-Hasan al-Misri could be disparaged, which is none other than the major scholars of today. I advise the Administrators not to remove this post, but let some of the students of knowledge reply to it from the understandings and explanations of the people of knowledge. Since, these claims are very easily refuted.

Sunnah
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Shaykh Muqbil:

Al-Humaidee posts (on Sahab.Net) the following quote:

التسليم لفهم العلماء النقاد ليس من التقليد

قال الشيخ العلامة المحدث مقبل بن هادي الوادعي:

وتسلم لهم فهم أهل الفن وأعلم بعلمهم ولست أدعوك إلى التقليد فإن هذا ليس من باب التقليد ولكنه من باب قبول خبر الثقة والله سبحانه وتعالى يقول (( يا أيها الذين آمنوا إن جاءكم فاسق بنبأ فتبينوا)) مفهوم الآية : أنه إذا جاءنا العدل فإننا نأخذ بخبره. والله أعلم

غارة الفصل على المعتدين على كتب العلل ص: 96


The Shaykh, Allaamah, Muhaddith, Muqbil bin Haadee al-Waadi'ee said, "And you submit to them (i.e. the scholars), for they are the people of that art, and they are more knowledgeable of their knowledge. And I do not call you to taqleed, since this is not from the aspect of taqleed, but it is from the angle of accepting the information of a trustworthy person, and Allaah, the Sublime and Exalted says, "O you who believe if a faasiq comes to you with news, then verify it", and the understanding of the verse is that when an upright (trustworthy) person comes, then we take his information, and Allah knows best.

Ghaaratul-Fasl, alaa al-Mu'tadee 'alaa Kutub il-Ilal p. 96

And al-Ghaythee adds the following pertinent comment:

May Allaah reward you, And I believe that those people do not understand the meaning of takhassus (specialisation) and khibrah (deep-rooted knowledge of the subject), and yet if they were to go to a dentist, they would submit to him in his specifying the particular form of treatment, and they would not contend about the matter. But as for the Ulamaa, then they consider them just like their ownselves in little depth of understanding.


nusratulhaqq
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بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته


Removing the Doubts Part 1: Accepting the news of the Thiqah ( Trustworthy person)

This is a reply to some of those confused individuals in the UK who are using certain doubts of some of the students of knowledge to confuse the salafi youth and turn them away from their Scholars.

These principles are being spread to:

1. Defend the people of Bid'ah as Abul Hasan Misree showed in his defense of Sayid Qutub, Al-Maghrawi, at-Tayyaar and others.

2. To plant the seed of hatred in our hearts so we start to hate and suspect our scholars.

3. Formation of a new Hizbiyyah in the garments of Salafiyyah as the Allaamah Shaykh Ubaid mentioned when he commented on the contract that Abul Hasan presented to the Salafis of the UK.

To proceed:

The reason why the followers of Abul Hasan Al-Ikhwaani want to reject the News of the Thiqah, is due to a new principle they have similar to that mentioned by Adnaan Aroor Daal Mudill (astray one who leads astray) which is:

" I dont accept the Jarh ( Criticism) of one who I know until I see this matter myself."

This statement is False from many angles:

1. That the speech of the Scholars about the people of innovation and their warning against them is by way of Khabar (News) and not Ijtihaad, so that which is obligatory upon us is that we accept the narration of the Thiqah (Trustworthy person) and we do not reject it. So this statement ( ie. I dont accept the Jarh ( Criticism) of one who I know until I see this matter myself") opposes this fundamental principle that the narration of the Thiqah is accepted.

2. Accepting the News from a Thiqqah is Itib'aa (following) him and not by way of taqleed and confusing the two affairs will cause alot of confusion which is not befitting for the student of Knowledge.

As Taqleed is to accept the saying of someone like the necklace placed around your neck to steer you in any direction where as Itib'aa is taking the proof which someone has made apparent to you.

So taking the narration of a Thiqqah, you are following him and not making Taqleed.
To make this clear:

If some news was to come to you from an Imaam (Scholar) concerning a certain narrator that he says such and such from the various sayings of the people of Bid'ah, If you were to accept his speech would it be by way of Taqleed or Itib'aa, the answer is that it is by way of Itib'aa.

If we were to see that another Imaam of Jarh was to give Ta'deel to this narrator who has been criticised, is it allowed for him to reject the Jarh of the Imaam who has criticised him or does he have to accept it?

The answer (Based upon what is established in the books of the Science of Hadeeth) is that he has to accept it, why?

Because the Jarh Mufassar (explained, qualified criticism) has precedence over the Ta'deel, as the one who is criticising has additional knowledge which it is obligatory to accept.

3. When is the Ta'deel accepted and Jarh rejected?

a) If the Jarh is Mujmal (General/not detailed) and it is made upon one who has Ta'deel. As if the person had no Ta'deel then the Jarh Mujmal would be accepted.

b) If the one giving Ta'deel has additional Knowledge, that he MENTIONS THE REASON which has lead to the criticism of the person and he REFUTES it.

c) The one criticising (Jaarih) is one not to be relied upon in Jarh wa Ta'deel.


For example if the one who is criticising ( making the Jarh) is himself Majrooh (critcised). Then his Criticism of an individual is not accepted.

Abdur Rahman Ibn Yusuf ibn Khiraash said about Amr ibn Saleem:
" Thiqah (Trustworthy) in his Hadeeth there is Ikhtilaat (Getting the Hadeeths mixed up)."

Ibn Hajr said:
" Ibn Khiraash has been mentioned with Rafd (Holds some type of belief of the Rawaafid) and Innovation, so no attention is paid to him." (Hadyus Saari pg.431)

So his statements in Jarh wa Ta'deel are rejected as he is Majrooh (criticised).

Likewise Abul Fath Al-Azadi Ibn Hajr said about him when he criticised one of the narrators:
" No importance is given to the statement of Azadi because he is Da'eef (Weak), so how can he be relied upon in declaring those who are Thiqat (Trustworthy) to be weak)." (Hadyus Saari 386)

So when Abul Hasan and his Hizb who procede upon his Manhaj speak ill of the Scholars or the Salafis then their statements are rejected as they are Majrooh.

( So look at Abul Hasan the Ikhwaani, the Scholars of Yemen have spoken with a Jarh Mufassar, Shaykh Ubaid, Shaykh Faalih, Shaykh Saalih Suhaymi, Shaykh Muhammed Ibn Haadi who accused and proved him of having lied, Shaykh Rabee has wrote many works, Shaykh Ahmed An-Najmi, Shaykh Zaid Al-Madkhali and others have all spoken but the people try and reject this with a general Ta'deel.)

4. The one who makes this statement uses it to defend those who are known for keeping companionship and friendship with the people of Bid'ah and has already been exposed, so it is not correct to place him in the category of one whose Adaalah has become established, rather it is more correct to place him along with those whose Adaalah has not been established, so concerning him a Jarh Mujmal is sufficient so what about a Jarh Mufassar.

5/ So are those people who take the tas-heeh (declaring a hadeeth to be saheeh) or tad'eef (declaring a hadeeth to be weak) of the scholars blind following as well? If al-Albaani said, "so and so hadeeth is Saheeh" - then taking that ruling is that taqleed or is it Ittibaa'? And are the common people, rather, are the vast majority of the students of knowledge in a position to know the evidence for the tas-heeh and tad'eef?

Shaykh Muqbil states that accepting the criticism of a Scholar is not Taqleed:

The Shaykh, Allaamah, Muhaddith, Muqbil bin Haadee al-Waadi'ee said, "And you submit to them (i.e. the scholars), for they are the people of that art, and they are more knowledgeable of their knowledge. And I do not call you to taqleed, since this is not from the aspect of taqleed, but it is from the angle of accepting the information of a trustworthy person, and Allaah, the Sublime and Exalted says, "O you who believe if a faasiq comes to you with news, then verify it", and the understanding of the verse is that when an upright (trustworthy) person comes, then we take his information, and Allah knows best.

Ghaaratul-Fasl, alaa al-Mu'tadee 'alaa Kutub il-Ilal p. 96


Now we will mention some of the sayings of the Scholars about accepting the news of the Thiqah.

The Allaamah Al-Qurtubi said in his Tafseer (16/312)where he explained the Ayaah:
' Oh you who believe if a sinner was to come to you with news then verify it..' (Al-Hujjaraat 49:6)

" In this Ayaah is a proof that we accept the news of one (person) if they are trustworthy, because in this Allaah only commanded verification in the news the Faasiq has related....."

Allaamah Ash-Shanqeeti ( Adwaa 7/627)also explained the above Ayaah when he said:
" Secondly This Ayaah shows that which the Scholars of Usool have used as a proof (to establish) that the news of a trustworthy person is accepted, because when Allaah said:
'Oh you who believe if a sinner was to come to you then verify it..' (Al-Hujjaraat 49:6)

The opposite understanding is that if a trustworthy person was to come with news and he was not a Faasiq (sinner) but he was trustworthy then it is not necessary to seek verification....."

Imaam As-Sa'dee in his Tafseer pg 744 said:

" That in this ( The Ayaah when Allaah said 'Oh you who believe if a sinner was to come to you then verify it..') is a proof that the news of the trustworthy one is accepted...."

Now let us look how the salaf used to accept the Jarh of Thiqqaat (Trustworthy people)

Look at Imaam Ahmed the Imaam of Ahlus Sunnah as comes in the book Tareekhul Baghdaad 8/374 with an authentic chain of narration:

" Saalih Ibn Abdillah went to his Father (Imaam Ahmed) and said: A man wants to come to you ( visit)

He said (Imaam Ahmed): What is his name?

He said: Dawood

He said: From where

He said: From Asbahaan

..... Imaam Ahmed kept on investigating until he realised (ie. who he was)

so he said (Imaam Ahmed): Muhammed ibn Yahya An-Naysaboori has already written to me about him and informed me that he claims that the Quraan is created, so don't let him come close to me.

He said (His son): But Oh father he negates this.

Imaam Ahmed said: Muhammed Ibn Yahya is more trustworthy than him, so dont let him come to me.

Look to the way the Imaam of Ahlus Sunnah behaved with this man even though he denied that he held that belief, but Imaam Ahmed ACCEPTED THE NEWS OF THE THIQAH and refused him entry.

So where are those who reject the speech of the Scholars (who are thiqqaat) about Adnaan Aroor, Magrawi, Abul Hasan and others from the manhaj of the salaf.

some of the information in this article was taken from the explanations and refutations of the people of knowledge some of which were posted on Sahab.Net and are available there.

This message was edited by sayfullaah on 9-11-02 @ 2:17 PM

Moosaa
10-09-2002 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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This is very disturbing to read.  The liar, 'Abdul-Mun'im from QSS, told me similar things this summer!  While organizing lectures for Shaykh Rabee', he went behind the scenes to brothers and spread this kind of filth.  He was more specific though, he was so bold to actually name names.  He said that "Shaykh Rabee' has double-standards.  He warns against Abul-Hasan, citing his mistakes, but then when the same kinds of mistakes are found in someone like Shaykh Bakr Aboo Zayd, he is silent.  So we can not take what he says."

So then it becomes obvious that his organization was only organizing this seminar (the Aboo Bakr As-Siddeeq Seminar in Makkah) "getting the people close to the 'ulamaa': as a LAST DITCH EFFORT to save the dying organization, not to comply with what they learn from the 'ulamaa'.  Wallaahul-Musta'aan.

And it is so sad that Sh. Rabee' was present in front of their faces, and they had these misconceptions and did not ask about them.  For the shaykh is USOOLEE and he allows the principles of the salaf to guide him in what he says, and he could have easily gone over the principle of dealing with people on their levels, and dealing with the errors of someone with false foundations is different than dealing with the errors of someone whose foundation is proper.  The shaykh was asked about this many times during his classes.  What prevented them from asking the kibaar!?  Why do they say that which they do not do!?!?

And the saddest part of it all if that they claim this devout love for our Shaykh Al-Albaanee!  So then in the shaykh's absence, may Allaah have Mercy on him, why do they refuse to take his advice and recognize the position of the carrier of the flag of jarh wa ta'deel, as Al-Albaanee himelf called him!?  The shaykh Al-Albaanee did not praise people often, so why do they not realize the great weight his words carry about the shaykh Rabee', may Allaah preerve him!!??

Also - could the one who posted the original article mention the source of the quote?

Baarak Allaah feekum

Moosaa

********************
سبحانك اللهم وبحمدك
أشهد أن لا إله إلا أنت
أستغفرك وأتوب إليك

nusratulhaqq
10-09-2002 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم


Again another lie by Abdul Mun'im when he claimed that Shaykh Rab'ee remains silent about Bakr Abo Zayd, as do you not know or you pretend not to know that Shaykh Allaamah Rab'ee Ibn Haadi has a book in refutation of Bakr Abo Zayd called Al-Hadd Al-Faasil Baynal Haqq wal Baatil.

This highlights the deceit and trickery of this man, may Allaah protect us from his evil.

Sunnah
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The original reference for that talk, I believe was a question/answer session either in Luton or Brixton, both of whom are upon the manhaj of Abul-Hasan al-Ikhwani (as someone rightly called him). The conference was set up in order to use the Jordanians to attack the Salafis in the West who have adhered to the truth in this issue. Alhamdulillaah, the Salafis in the West will not be bullied in this manner, and they are with the scholars and the scholars are with them.

nusratulhaqq
11-09-2002 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته


Shaykh Faalih has already called Abdul Qaadir (from Luton where the main seminar was held) a Dajjaal Affaak. Due to his lies and Talbees in trying to defend Abul Hasan.
This liar still holds that Magrawi is a Salafi.
On his site he has translated the words of Abul Hasan.
So his affair is clear!
And Birds of a feather flock together.

If you heard the tapes from Brixton you would find that it is an effort to defend Abul Hasan Al-Ikhwaani, in many ways:

1. Spreading false principles.
2. Attack on Shaykh Rabee and the Scholars of the Mamlaka.
3. Defense of some of the actual points that the Scholars have critcised Al-Ma'ribi for.
4. Attack on the salafis of the UK who stick to the major Scholars and fight Hizbiyyah.
5. Talbeesaat (eg. their claim that there is a new sect worst than the Hadaadiyyah, who declare the one who does not declare a certain individual to be a innovator an innovator).
And to this day not one of these places have freed themselves from this evil speech.

And Alhamdu Lillah we are busy learning and studying as those who allowed this calamity to take place have only harmed themselves.

As for the benefit then we hope that our brothers would consult the likes of Shaykh Rabee, Shaykh Ubaid, Shaykh Faalih, Shaykh Muhammed Ibn Haadi, Shaykh Zaid or other than them before they decide to speak out and I am sure that they aware of this.

This message was edited by nusratulhaqq on 9-11-02 @ 1:33 AM

AbuJaabir
11-09-2002 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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assalamu alaikum,

in regards to refuting the jarh, these conditions are given:

a) If the Jarh is Mujmal (General/not detailed) and it is made upon one who has Ta'deel. As if the person had no Ta'deel then the Jarh Mujmal would be accepted.

b) If the one giving Ta'deel has additional Knowledge, that he MENTIONS THE REASON which has lead to the critcism of the person and he REFUTES it.

c) The one critcising (Jaarih) is one not to be relied upon in Jarh wa Ta'deel.

alhamdulillah, i understand the first 2, but i do not understand subpoint c.

what exactly does it mean that the person making the jarh cannot be relied upon in jarh wa ta'deel? or is this a typo? as its kind of confusing.

jazak Allahu khayr
wassalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah


yaa Hayyu yaa Qayyum bi-Rahmatika astagheeth

Sunnah
11-09-2002 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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Brixton and Luton openly call to the manhaj of Abul-Hasan, and they believe and defend whatever was claimed in their conferences:

quote:
Return to Ilm 8 Conference
  
Return to Ilm 8  

Its all over.....after an absence of two years Return to Ilm (Knowledge) 8 was held between the 9th and 11th of August 2002. The conference based on feedback and attendance from families from all parts of the United Kingdom (and in some cases) Europe was a success masha Allaah. The Shuyookh covered many topics which clarified principles of the deen (Religion) and highlighted areas where some students have erred.


This is what Brixton says on its website. So whether due to a) jahl or b) desire, they (and more openly by Luton) promote the false ideas of Abul-Hasan, and are selling the cassettes and promoting them and propagating the ideas, out of conviction.

In addition they are openly attacking the Salafees, labelling them "Juhhaal Extremists", as is being done by the liar Abdul-Qadir. Really, this is an attack upon Shaykh Rabee', Shaykh Faalih, Shaykh Ahmad and Najmee and others. Whether we like it or not, they have chosen their path of separating from the scholars. It is upon the tullaab to advise them (to benefit them personally) as well as refute them and their false ideas openly (to benefit those besides them).

Shaykh Falih informed some of the tullaab from the West that they should openly refute and expose the likes of those who propagate the manhaj of Abul-Hasan.



nusratulhaqq
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c) The one critcising (Jaarih) is one not to be relied upon in Jarh wa Ta'deel.


For example if the one who is criticising ( making the Jarh) is himself Majrooh (criticised). Then his Criticism of an individual is not accepted.

Abdur Rahman Ibn Yusuf ibn Khiraash said about Amr ibn Saleem:
" Thiqah (Trustworthy) in his Hadeeth there is Ikhtilaat (Getting the Hadeeths mixed up)."

Ibn Hajr said:
" Ibn Khiraash has been mentioned with Rafd (Holds some type of belief of the Rawaafid) and Innovation, so no attention is paid to him." (Hadyus Saari pg.431)

So his statements in Jarh wa Ta'deel are rejected as he is Majrooh (criticised).

Likewise Abul Fath Al-Azadi Ibn Hajr said about him when he criticised one of the narrators:
" No importance is given to the statement of Azadi because he is Da'eef (Weak), so how can he be relied upon in declaring those who are Thiqat (Trustworthy) to be weak)." (Hadyus Saari 386)

So when Abul Hasan and his Hizb who procede upon his Manhaj speak ill of the Scholars or the Salafis then their statements are rejected as they are Majrooh.

This message was edited by nusratulhaqq on 9-11-02 @ 2:07 PM

Sunnah
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Ahsanta yaa akhee nusratulhaqq!

AbuJaabir
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jazak Allahu khayr!

that is what i assumed it meant.

should it then read the one criticisED is not to be relied upon? intead of the one criticisING?

barak Allahu feekum
wassalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah

yaa Hayyu yaa Qayyum bi-Rahmatika astagheeth

nusratulhaqq
11-09-2002 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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No Inshaa Allaah what we have typed is correct.
c) The one critcising (Jaarih) is one not to be relied upon in Jarh wa Ta'deel.
And one of the reasons why a person is not relied upon is due to him being majrooh (Criticised).


As if you had the basic knowledge of Arabic you would know that
جارح
is the
اسم فاعل
the one doing the action (ie. in this case the one criticising).
But Ikhwaa this is case of those people who have been affected by the disease of Abul Hasan Al-Ikwaani, you see them with their Jahl Murakkab combined with their desires trying to cause confusion between Ahlus Sunnah.
Let us Go and learn then come back and discuss.
Knowledge procedes speech and action!

This message was edited by nusratulhaqq on 9-12-02 @ 12:06 AM

abdulilah
12-09-2002 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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11/9/02 4th Rajab 1423
This evening i saw sheikh al Banna in the Haram and he told me abul Hasan came to visit him last wednesday but the sheikh told him to take his errors back and excuse himself from Sheikh Rabee' and those he spoke against unjustly when he was the one who was supposed to take his errors back.

Sheikh Muhammad Abdulwahhab al Banna Hafidhahullaah said that he caught Abul Hasan being dishonest, not telling the truth in the course of his discussion with him. That he does not seek to rectify the matters but splitting. This can be seen from his actions. Sheikh al Banna said to him why did you not initially take your errors back when the Yemeni mashayakh advised you, then he sat with the nashayakh from Madinah and still he says i only took 2 mistakes back not the many he mentioned to the scholars in Madinah.

I saw Sheikh Zayd al Madkhalee in Jeezan over the weekend last and he said those that say that hadeeth ahaad do not constitute knowledge are misguided. i,e Abul Hasan al Ma'rabi. You must read Sheikh Rabee's detailed jarh of this inshaallaah you will benefit.

Sheikh Muhammad al Madhkhalee has also refuted Abul Hasan last saturday by showing how he lied about the position of sheikh al Islaam ibn Taymiyyah regarding those that make the takfeer and tafseeq of the companions are kuffar. Firstly Abul Hasan does not include those that make tafseeq of the companions as being kuffar as sheikh Islaam ibn Taymiyyah did but Abul Hasan also says that one must even after that establish the hujjah before takfeer is made and he said his statement is the same as sheikh al Islaam ibn Taymiyyah. This is not true since nowhere does Sheikh al Islaam ibn Taymiyyah say hujjah must first be applied and sheikh Islaam added the tafseeq of the companion enough to take one out of the deen which Abul Hasan did not include in his book seraaj al Wahhaaj.

This shows we must becareful not to listen to Abul Hasan for this is clear talbees as the scholars mentioned to us. Stick with the elder scholars and the Jarh Mufassal. You must.

Abdulqaadir is making a big mistake in defending Abul Hasan. He sat with sheikh Rabee' in his house got a letter for Islaah then he makes fasad by promoting Abul Hasan's refutation of Sheikh Rabee' and the Usool of Ahlu Sunnah. But truth will prevail over falsehood.


oummou.assia
14-09-2002 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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bissmillahi rahmani rahim
assalam alaykoum wa rahmatoullahi wa barakaatouh


jazakoum allahou khair for these excellent clarifications about the 1st article sent by bro "amreekanSalafi".
But could u tell us how do we uncover those lies about the ulama: i mean, this so called answer by shaikh al hilali, is it a lie?( did he never say it?)
What can we do to see that it is nor from those great ulama? (though, with some 3ilm, one can have big doubts about this article coz there are points in it which are in total opposite with some oussoul in jahr wa ta3dil , as shown in the answers).
I mean, also, i went to ( please dont post these links here), and i read the article from abdul qaadir: i was shocked about what was in it, and i had doubts, but th epseron who introduced me to that site told me : " look, this article is from a great 3aalim: ibn abdul barr".This answer did not satisfy me, but once again, how can one do to uncover such deceptions?

This message was edited by sayfullaah on 9-15-02 @ 12:35 AM






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