SalafiTalk.Net » The Fitnah of Al-Ma'ribee, Tamyee', those who Accommodate the Astray Sects
» Abul-Hasan Misri on Ikhwan: Deception Unfolds!
Search ===>

Part 1Part 2Part 3Part 4Part 5Part 6Part 7Part 8Part 9 • Part 10 • Part 11 • Part 12

   Reply to this Discussion Start new discussion << previous || next >> 
Posted By Topic: Abul-Hasan Misri on Ikhwan: Deception Unfolds!

book mark this topic Printer-friendly Version  send this discussion to a friend  new posts last

15-09-2002 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
Posts: 67
Joined: Aug 2002

"Mukhtasir Bayaan Talbees Abil-Mihan al-Misree: Part 1

Concerning Ikhwan and Tabligh and Whether They Are From Ahl us-Sunnah and the Position of Imaam al-Albaani.

This is a brief series, quickly refuting the deception and lies being spread from the words of Abul-Mihan al-Misree by his followers in the West. This Mubtadi' is now using whatever methods he can to save himself, and relying upon his ignorant followers to spread these shubuhaat.

Abul-Mihan al-Misree has replied to the refutation of him by Shaykh Muhammad al-Madkhalee concerning his position on Ikhwaan and whether they are from Ahl us-Sunnah or not, and in his reply he has again used talbees (deception) and lies, in order to confuse the Ummah and to beguile them, and then his followers in the West have propagated these lies.

So we say in response:

Summary of the Talbees: Shaykh Al-Albani does not make tabdee' of specific individuals who are attached to the Jamaa'aat like Ikhwan or Tabligh. Since, he differentiates between the manhaj of the individuals and manhaj of the Jamaa'ah, since in certain situations they might not be the same. Thus, al-Misree uses this (differentiation) in order move away from tabdee' of the Jamaa'ah and instead focus on "tabdee' of the manhaj". Notice this and pay very careful attention to it. When a person begins to say yes, the "manhaj" of the ikhwaan is innovated, astray etc., its shifts the focus away from the Jamaa'ah, and instead onto the actual details of the manhaj itself. Thus, we begin to say "the manhaj of Ikhwaan is innovated", and instead we tend to move away from saying, "the Ikhwaan are Innovators, upon innovation and misguidance, outside of Ahl us-Sunnah". So al-Misree has used some discussions of Shaykh al-Albaani in order to arrive at this particular understanding and ascribe it to Shaykh al-Albaani, without consideration of other statements of Shaykh al-Albaani in which he expels Ikhwaan from Ahl us-Sunnah.

What results does this have?

1) Absence of warning from the Jamaa'ah itself, by name.
2) Tending to consider it as a whole, not to be outside of Ahl us-Sunnah, since now the judgement is not placed upon the Jamaa'ah but upon its "manhaj".
3) Tending to move away from the manhaj of the Salaf in warning from individuals, and groups by name, and exposing them and refuting them, and instead speaking only broadly in terms of methodologies and creeds (thus, being able to avoid mention and warning of specific individuals or jamaa'aat).
4) Aiding the manhaj of Hassan al-Bannaa, the Ikhwaan in accommodating and showing ease to the Innovators


There are three distinct issues, and all of which are found in the words and various discussions of Imaam al-Albaani.

a) Not considering specific individuals amongst the Jamaa'ah to be innovators, due to the different motives found amongst them, since amongst them are i) those who subscribe to their beliefs and methodologies, working with and aiding the Jamaa'ah in its goals and objectives ii) those who entered them to correct and advise them, but without subscribing to the manhaj of the Jamaa'ah. Thus because of this we differentiate between individuals and the Jama'aah itself.

b) Considering the manhaj of the Jamaa'ah to be innovated.

c) Considering the Jamaa'ah as a whole, as an entity, to be outside of Ahl us-Sunnah, on account of what it has of innovation and misguidance. Al-Misree has conveniently left out what is found in the words of al-Albaani, where he expels Ikhwan as a whole from Ahl us-Sunnah. Here his speech is not about their "manhaj" but about the Jamaa'ah, itself, as an entity.

Shaikh al-Albaanee in many of his cassettes, and amongst his sayings is: "And I say then, that it is not correct for it to be said that al-Ikhwaan ul-Muslimeen are from Ahl us-Sunnah, because they fight against the Ahl us-Sunnah" [From the tape: Debate with a Suroori]. And he also said on the tape concerning Sayyid Qutb, "they (the Ikhwaan) wage a war against Tawheed".

(And Imaam Ibn Baaz considered the Ikhwan and Tabligh to be from the Seventy-Three sects, and Shaykh al-Fawzaan also considered every Jamaa'ah that opposes Ahl us-Sunnah, in aqeedah, manhaj etc. is from the Innovators.)

So a-Misree took a particular discussion (or discussions) in which al-Albaani is really speaking about tabdee' of specific individuals and guidelines concerning it, and that it is not absolutely the case that everyone within a Jamaa'ah is upon the manhaj of the Jamaa'ah (since he might have joined just to correct them), and then using these words to claim that this differentiation is indicative of al-Albanis' absolute and unrestricted viewpoint that Ikhwan are not outside of Ahl us-Sunnah.

This is talbees, since these discussions are related to judgements upon individuals, and differentiating between individuals, what they are upon, and what the manhaj of the Jamaa'ah is and that one might not be the same as the other (i.e. the manhaj of the Jamaa'ah and the manhaj of the indvidual). However, in numerous other discussions, Shaykh al-Albaani discusses another issue which is that Ikhwaan are actually outside of Ahl us-Sunnah, i.e. as a Jamaa'ah, as a group, as an entity. And this is what al-Misree wishes to avoid, or he is not too keen on this approach, and uses very watered-down, lenient approaches. Thus, he relied upon some discussions as opposed to others, so that it all fits into his false manhaj.

And this all fits in with the new wave of the Bannaawee assault which is to find ways and means to accommodate and defend the Innovators.

And in his reply to Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee, this is what was used by Al-Misree, in order to excuse himself.

Here are some quotes from Misree (dated 26/6/1423):


>When I came back from Amman, for a period of time I felt that the opinion of the Sheikh was correct. This was based upon the following ? that the problem and mistakes that they (ikwaan) were upon, I considered to be fardiyah (individual) and not manhajiyah (methodology). So I recorded a tape in Aden and Abyan with some students of knowledge and mentioned this issue to them. A while later, it became clear to me that we must differentiate between hukm over manhaj and hukm over afrad (individuals).<


>This is the opinion which I have been firm upon for many years, that there is a difference between manhaj (of a jammah) and afraad (individuals within that jammah).<


>So that manhaj (of the jammah) is a manhaj deviated from ahlul sunnah. As for the individuals, then each person is criticised by that which he deserves, after looking into his matter from all angles. So this is my position which is recorded on tape from a long time ago.<

Note how he focuses on differentiating between the "manhaj" of a jamaa'ah and the "manhaj" of an individual, and then he restricts himself to this differentiation, without venturing into the third issue which is that the Jamaa'ah itself is outside of Ahl us-Sunnah because of its innovated manhaj. So there is the hukm over the individual, then over the manhaj, but what about the hukm over the Jamaa'ah itself?

Al-Misree has replied in such a manner so as to avoid any discussion of this last point, and this is what one generally finds in his speech concerning this subject.

So it is upon al-Misree to:

a) Repent more clearly from his vague position
b) Speak with the speech of the scholars of Ahl us-Sunnah that Ikhwaan, as a Jamaa'ah, are Innovators, outside of Ahl us-Sunnah, and amongst the seventy-three sects - and with individuals amongst them it depends upon iqaamatul-hujjah - and not limit his speech just on "the manhaj" of these Jamaa'aat. Rather, he must speak about the Jamaa'aat themselves, as entities, groups, specifically.
c) Hold it forbidden to make co-operation with them and to be intimate with them, unless they return to the manhaj of the Salaf
d) To announce the error of what he has stated and make clear his recantation in words that are unambiguous.

And this is nothing more than what the Scholars of Ahl us-Sunnah have asked from him.

Inshaa'allaah more to follow..."

SP Admin     09-11-2002 @ 2:06 PM    


The words of Imaam al-Albaani:

Shaikh al-Albani was asked concerning the book, ?Dhaahiratul-Irjaa? fil-Fikr al-Islaami? of Safar al-Hawali, and in this book takfir is performed on account of certain sins! He replied: ?I gave my viewpoint on a matter about thirty or so years ago when I used to be in the [Isamic] University (of Madinah) and I was asked in a gathering about my opinion on Jamaa?at ut-Tabligh. So I said on that day, ?They are the Sufis of this era?. And now it is clear to me that I should say about this Jamaa?ah who have emerged in the present times and who have opposed the Salaf, I say here, in accordance with the statement of al-Hafidh adh-Dhahabi: They have opposed the Salaf in much of the issues of manhaj, and it is befitting that I label them ?the Khawarij of the Era?. And this resembles their emergence at the current time ? in which we read their statements ? because they, in reality, their words take the direction and objective of that of the Khawarij in performing takfir of the one who commits major sins. And perhaps I should say, this is either due to ignorance on their behalf or due to devised plot!!?? (Cassette: The Khawaarij of the Era).


1) Indication of the emergence of a "Jamaa'ah"

2) Indication of opposition of this "Jamaa'ah" to the manhaj. In other words the manhaj of the Jamaa'ah opposes the way of the Salaf and is astray.

3) Tabdee' of this Jamaa'ah by saying "Khaarijiyyah Asriyyah".

4) Judgement of tabdee' upon the Jamaa'ah as a whole, as an entity, and not restricting to saying the "manhaj" alone is innovated or astray.

5) And tabdee' of the manhaj and the Jamaa'ah itself, necessitates warning from this Jamaa'ah and keeping away from it

6) That alongside all of this, tabdee' of the Jamaa'ah does not necessitate tabdee' of everyone within this Jamaa'ah as that depends upon iqaamatul-hujjah. However, this does not prevent tabdee'of the Jamaa'ah being made - and this is from the angle of preventing the evil, and warning from it, be that an individual or a manhaj or a jamaa'ah.

All of this opposes the manhaj of Abul-Mihan al-Misree, who on the whole wishes to speak of manaahij in general terms, but desires to defend individuals and jamaa'aat - as he does with al-Maghrawi and some of the heads of the Haraki Hizbees in Saudi Arabia. This is what his behaviour proves about him, and the actions speak louder than what is claimed in the words."

Abu Abdullaah     09-14-2002 @ 3:26 PM    

"Wasnt the issue for which Shaykh Muhammad al-Madkhalee criticised him for that he made Ikhwan in Yemen to be inside of Ahl us-Sunnah? And differences are only in furoo? And he also spoke about Tablighi Jamaat?

In that case Abul Hasan should take those words back clearly instead of going off in other directions.

I dont see the point in bringing this reply when the original issue was why did he enter them into Ahl us Sunnah in the first place? His words were incorrect so he should be taking them back.

If you say that Ikhwan are from Ahl us Sunnah and the mistakes are within Ahl us Sunnah which is false statement, these words need to be repented from. What is the point in bringing principles from other scholars only to defend the incorrect statement he made?

I know you distinguish between individuals and manhaj of the group when making rulings, but was that the actual issue? The issue was that he entered Ikhwan as a group into Ahl us Sunnah in words that are clear.

I read Abul Hasans reply and I think you should add some other points here, like why does he not say yes, I agree I was wrong because all the scholars of today actually expel Ikhwan from Ahl us Sunnah, and that statement was wrong. They are outside of Ahl us Sunnah.

Why has he gone to the words of Imaam Albaani and used them to defend the false statement that he made? Shaykh Muqbil was warning from this group for years with the knowledge of Abul Hasan and he considered them outside of Ahl us Sunnah and was always warning against them. Other scholars also explain they are not Ahl us Sunnah, many scholars in fact. Abul Hasan knows this.

I think it is best to follow the advice of the Shaykhs of Madinah and leave Abul Hasan and not bother with him, because his replies are full of shubuhaat and tricks and they cause the hearts to become diseased and there is little truthfulness to be found in correcting himself.

I also read now on Sahab that Abul Hasan visited Salman al Awdah some years ago. Also he speaks well and defends Aaid al Qarni. And he also has friendship with Tayyar who is Takfiri.The way of this man is clear. He mixed with the Innovators and in his words he tries to defend them but in a cunning way. Then when he is caught out he then goes and finds words of scholars which he can use to hide and defend his false words, and to make it look like he is just following scholars. And then people become confused and they think that he is actually right and he is being wronged."


15-09-2002 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
Posts: 67
Joined: Aug 2002
SP Admin     09-15-2002 @ 11:17 AM    

Your right. Looks like they replied to the above article as well. They don't even understand the issue.

1. Alhamdulillah, the scholars instructed Al-Ma'ribee on this issue, those of Madinah, and they requested that he repent openly and clearly and refute every thing he said in that tape that was error, word for word. Refer to the tape by Shaykh Muhammad al-Madhkalee that, the lecture he did on Paltalk, that was delivered in Jeddah. So we do not precede the scholars, rather our speech comes from the scholars.

2. Secondly, what al-Ma'ribee wrote is hardly a taraaju', it is just a cunning way of trying to defend his viewpoint, and in which he still does not explicitly admit his error. Instead of saying, "Yes, including the Ihkwan within Ahl us-Sunnah was wrong and what was correct is that they are Innovators, outside of Ahl us-Sunnah", he went and found words to try and play down his words of error. Even when you read his words, he does not really make all of this clear.

3. He is not compared to the likes of the major scholars, since they were unaware of the true nature of Ikhwan and Tabligh. When that information came to them, they changed their viewpoints. As for al-Ma'ribee, then he lived in a land in the presence of Shaykh Muqbil, whose refutation, exposition, and tabdee' of these Innovators was known. This is what Shaykh Muhammad al-Madkhalee pointed out in his refutation of al-Ma'ribee.

4. If the fools had bothered to read the above article properly, they would not have found any negation of al-Albaani having considered the Ikhwan to be from Ahl us-Sunnah. This is known.However, the issue is that in al-Ma'ribee's reply there is deception involved, because he must know that what Al-Albaani settled upon was that Ikhwaan were outside of Ahl us-Sunnah. But he did not venture into that direction, and clearly say, "I hold the final view of al-Albaani", instead he just played around and tried to defend what he said and explain it away.

5. As for our statement, "?So al-Misree has used some discussions of Shaykh al-Albaani in order to arrive at this particular understanding and ascribe it to Shaykh al-Albaani, without consideration of other statements of Shaykh al-Albaani in which he expels Ikhwaan from Ahl us-Sunnah."

Then yes it is correct, and it does not include any negation of the fact that Shaykh al-Albaani used to consider Ikhwan from Ahl us-Sunnah before knowing their reality.

However, the following must be noted:

a) that al-Ma'ribee is speaking in 2002CE, 1423H, at a time when he knows clearly the final position of Shaykh al-Albaani. And he is speaking in a context in which he is trying to defend a statement in which he says Ikhwan are from Ahl us-Sunnah.

b) that in his reply to Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee, he is using some discussions of Shaykh al-Albaani, in order to arrive at an understanding by which he can explain away his statement of error, even if he made it back in 1416H or whenever it was. However, since it is 1423H(!!), he never once went in the direction of mentioning what Shaykh al-Albaani's final, actual position was, even though he knows it clearly.

c) Thus, he has only relied upon some discussions as opposed to others, and since the context is one in which he is trying to use Shaykh al-Albaanis' old words to defend what he is upon, or what he said, and also the context is him being criticised, and also him having lived in Yemen with Shaykh Muqbil and others, and also knowing know the view of all the scholars, his reply contains cunningness and deception.

If the fools had actually bothered to understand the discussion, they would not have lied upon us, claiming that we said Shaykh al-Albaani never held that Ikhwan were from Ahl us-Sunnah. All we said was that if we are in 1423H, then trying to explain ones' error away by relying upon an old discussion of Shaykh al-Albaani, and then not even explaining what is final viewpoint was (which al-Ma'ribee knows), and avoiding the issue altogether, amd not admitting that Shaykh Muhammad al-Madkhalee is actually correct in what he said, then this contains some deception.

Its difficult to discuss with people who don't even understand the course of discussion to begin with.  

TawhidFirst | Aqidah | AboveTheThrone | Asharis
Madkhalis | Takfiris | Maturidis | Dajjaal
Islam Against Extremism | Manhaj
Ibn Taymiyyah | Bidah

main page | contact us
Copyright 2001 - SalafiTalk.Net
Madinah Dates Gold Silver Investments