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zaeem.sivardeen
15-08-2004 @ 11:07 AM    Notify Admin about this post
Aboo Abdillaah Zaeem bin Sivardeen (unspecified)
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How the Muslims gain Authority in the Land.

Shaykh ?Abdur-Rahmaan Aal ash-Shaykh writes in Qurrah ?Uyoon al-Muwahhideen, while explaining Chapter 40 of Kitaab at-Tawheed of his grandfather Imaam Muhammad bin ?Abdil-Wahhaab (rahimahumallaah):

In Tahdheeb al-Kamaal from al-Waleed al-Muwaqqaree from az-Zuhree, who said: I reached ?Abdul-Malik bin Marwaan, so he said: Where have you come from O Zuhree?
He said:      I said: From Makkah.
He said:           Who did you leave in charge of it and its people?
I said:           ?Ataa bin Abee Rabaah.
He said:           So is he an ?Arab or a freed slave?
I said:           He is a freed slave.
He said:           So how will he take charge of them?
I said:           With his piety and his narrations.
He said:           Indeed it is befitting that the People of Piety and Narrations are in charge.

He said:           So who is in charge of the people of Yaman?
I said:           Taawoos bin Kaysaan.
He said:           So is he an ?Arab or a freed slave?
He said:      I said: He is a freed slave.
He said:           So how will he take charge of them?
I said:           In the same way that ?Ataa would.
He said:           Indeed that is certainly befitting.

He said:           So who is in charge of the people of Misr?
I said:           Yazeed bin Abee Habeeb.
He said:           So is he an ?Arab or a freed slave?
He said:      I said: He is a freed slave.

He said:           So who is in charge of the people of Shaam?
I said:           Makhool.
He said:           So is he an ?Arab or a freed slave?
I said:           He is a freed slave. [?Abd Noobee]. A woman from Hudhayl freed him.

He said:          So who is in charge of the people of al-Jazeerah?
I said:               Maymoon bin Mihraan.
He said:          So is he an ?Arab or a freed slave?
I said:               He is a freed slave.

He said:          So who is in charge of the people of Khuraasaan?
He said:     I said:     ad-Dahhaak bin Muzaahim.
He said:          So is he an ?Arab or a freed slave?
I said:               He is a freed slave.

He said:          So who is in charge of the people of al-Basrah?
I said:               Al-Hasan al-Basree.
He said:          So is he an ?Arab or a freed slave?
I said:               He is a freed slave.

He said:          Woe to you! And who is in charge of the people of al-Koofah?
He said:     I said:     Ibraaheem an-Nakha?ee.
He said:          So is he an ?Arab or a freed slave?
He said:     I said:     He is an ?Arab.

He said:          Woe to you O Zuhree! You have relieved me, while Allaah has certainly put the freed slaves in charge of the ?Arabs, such that they are on the Minbar-s giving the Khutbah-s, while the ?Arabs are [sitting] below.

He said:     I said:     O Ameer al-Mu-mineen! This is a religion such that the one who preserves & memorises it, takes charge, while the one who loses & neglects it, falls.


Abu 'Abdillaah Zaeem Sivardeen
Riyadh, Saudi Arabia  

AbuUkkaasha
15-08-2004 @ 3:57 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Abu Ukkaasha Shaakir Ibn Willard Gree (Hawthorne, California)
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Just a quick question insha Allaah. From your post it states: "He said:           So who is in charge of the people of Shaam?
I said:           Makhool.
He said:           So is he an ?Arab or a freed slave?
I said:           He is a freed slave. [?Abd Noobee]. A woman from Hudhayl freed him."

The word Abd is used which indicates that he was a slave and Noobee does this refer to him being nubian? I ask because the other freed slaves that were mentioned didn't have that expression or that additional information. Also isn't a freed slaved called a Mawla? In addition to that, when asked if he was an Arab or a freed slave, was this the distinguishing charcteristic used to differenciate between an Arab and non arab or just the nobility of some over others? Baraka Allaahu feek, if anyone can answer please do.



فمن كان يريد حقا الرجوع الى الكتاب والسنة, فليزمه الرجوع الى ما كان عليه أصحاب النبي عليه السلام و التابعين و أتباعهم من بعدهم

Moosaa
15-08-2004 @ 4:07 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Abul-'Abbaas Moosaa ibn John Richardson (Jeddah, Saudi Arabia)
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JAZAAKUM ALLAAHU KHAYRAN!!!

Moosaa
15-08-2004 @ 4:12 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Abul-'Abbaas Moosaa ibn John Richardson (Jeddah, Saudi Arabia)
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...except that the narrator of the story is a liar and a fabricator, al-Waleed ibn Muhammad al-Muwaqqaree, and this story specifically has been identified as a fabrication... and Allaah knows best.  Waffaq Allaah al-jamee'.

Moosaa ibn John Richardson

********************
سبحانك اللهم وبحمدك
أشهد أن لا إله إلا أنت
أستغفرك وأتوب إليك

This message was edited by Moosaa on 8-15-04 @ 4:36 PM

zaeem.sivardeen
18-08-2004 @ 11:36 AM    Notify Admin about this post
Aboo Abdillaah Zaeem bin Sivardeen (unspecified)
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All Praises are for Allaah, and may His Salaah and Salaams be upon His Messenger.

Jazaakallaahu khayran brother Moosaa for pointing out the condition of one of the narrators in the narration.

I must admit, I did not think of checking the authenticity of the narration because Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan (Hafidhahullaah) did not criticize its authenticity during the lessons I attended on the Book. In fact he added points of explanation to the narration, finishing off by noting that the most noble of us in the sight of Allaah are the ones with the most Taqwaa. Also the muhaqqiq of my copy of the book did not mention anything about it, while he did with several other narrations, usually referring to the books of Imaam al-Albaanee (Rahimahullaah).

Anyway, as is noted in Taqreeb at-Tahdheeb No. 7453:

?Al-Waleed bin Muhammad al-Muwaqqaree, Aboo Bishr al-Balqaawee, a freed slave of Banoo ?Umayyah: He is Matrook??


Abu 'Abdillaah Zaeem Sivardeen
Riyadh, Saudi Arabia  

Moosaa
18-08-2004 @ 10:57 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Abul-'Abbaas Moosaa ibn John Richardson (Jeddah, Saudi Arabia)
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Baarak Allaahu feekum.  It is worth mentioning as well that Ibn Hibbaan, who was considered mutasaahil (lenient) in his critisim of narrators, said about al-Waleed ibn Muhammad al-Muwaqqaree:

كان ممن لا يبالي، ما دفع إليه قرأه

روى عن الزهري أشياء موضوعة،

لم يحدث بها الزهري قط كما روى عنه،

وكان يرفع المراسيل، ويسند الموقوف،

لا يجوز الاحتجاج به بحال.


"He was from those who did not used to care (about what they narrated), whatever was given to him he read it [1], he relayed fabricated things from az-Zuhree [2] that he (az-Zuhree) never narrated as he (Waleed) did.  He made mursal narrations marfoo', and connected mawqoof narrations (to the Prophet sallallaahu 'alayhe wa sallam), it is not permissible to use him (his narrations) as a proof in any circumstance."
[al-Majrooheen, 2/418]


[1] "It is sufficient to call a man a liar that he narrates everything he hears." [Muslim]   I say this in reference to al-Waleed who used to narrate from any book given to him.  Narrating from a book is only accepted from someone who has preserved his hadeeth in his own book and took care of it, gaurding it so that no one wrote in it, except in the case of a book that has been authenticated and known, then others may narrate from it.  And indeed it was Yahyaa ibn Ma'een and Muhammad ibn 'Awf at-Taa'ee who called al-Waleed a kath-thaab. [Tahtheeb al-Kamaal 7/484]

[2] The story quoted in the beginning of this thread was from al-Waleed's narrations from az-Zuhree.

Moosaa ibn John Richardson

********************
سبحانك اللهم وبحمدك
أشهد أن لا إله إلا أنت
أستغفرك وأتوب إليك

This message was edited by Moosaa on 8-18-04 @ 11:25 PM

s.alhashimi
21-08-2004 @ 4:42 AM    Notify Admin about this post
abou hassan sulaiman ibn james johnso (KSA)
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Shaykhul-islaam Ibn tamiyyah rahimullah rahmat-wasi' "Ahmad ibn Hanbal has said that in the case of legal ahadith which tell whether something is lawful or forbidden we very strictly scrutinize the narrative chain, but in the case of those ahadith which exort or warn we are quite lenient." fatawa -v.18:65-68

Prophet (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam), "May Allaah make make pleasant the man who heard a hadeeth from us and then conveyed it (to another)."

Moosaa
22-08-2004 @ 8:18 AM    Notify Admin about this post
Abul-'Abbaas Moosaa ibn John Richardson (Jeddah, Saudi Arabia)
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quote:
Shaykhul-islaam Ibn tamiyyah rahimullah rahmat-wasi' "Ahmad ibn Hanbal has said that in the case of legal ahadith which tell whether something is lawful or forbidden we very strictly scrutinize the narrative chain, but in the case of those ahadith which exort or warn we are quite lenient." fatawa -v.18:65-68


Baarak Allaahu feekum.

It is important to note that the subject of the above quote is dha'eef (weak) narrations (not fabrications) ascribed to the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) and "Israa'eelee reports, dreams, words of the Salaf and the scholars, stories of the scholars?" [al-Fataawee, 18/66]

On the same page, we find Shaykh al-Islaam saying,

فما عُلم أنه باطل موضوع لمْ يَجُزِ الالتفاتُ إليه، فإنَّ الكذبَ لا يُفيد شيئًا
"And as for what has become known as fabricated falsehood, then it is not permissible to glance at it, for verily the lie does not produce any benefit."


And Ahmad never used narrations from anyone known to hiim to be a liar, as explained by Ibn Taymiyyah himself [al-Fataawee, 18/72], as will be explained in shaa' Allaah.

Someone might say: "Isn't a mawdhoo' (fabricated) narration under the category of dha'eef (weak), thus shouldn't the same leniency be applied?  And aren't the scholars more lenient in dealing with reports that are not marfoo', ie. not narrations of the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhe wa sallam)?

The reply: Yes, mawdhoo' (fabrication) is a category of dha'eef, however the mawdhoo' and dha'eef jiddan (severely weak) narration are not intended when the 'ulamaa' speak about the permissibility of using weak reports, like the quote above from Imaam Ahmad.  It is haraam to mention the mawdhoo' narration except to warn against it and inform the people that it is mawdhoo', as the scholars of hadeeth have mentioned [Tadreeb ar-Raawee, 1/323; al-Baa'ith al-Hatheeth, 1/238].  As for using mawdhoo' narrations for targheeb and tarheeb (exhortations), then this is not permissible by way ijmaa' (consensus) of the Muslims.  [Tadreeb ar-Raawee, 1/325]

And as for the scholars being more lenient in accepting reports from other than the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhe wa sallam), like stories of the Companions and early imaams, then, yes, they are more lenient, however this is not without limits.  They would not use reports from narrators known to be liars!  As mentioned, "And as for what has become known as fabricated falsehood," meaning from the ahaadeeth and reports from the Salaf, "Then it is not permissible to glance at it, for verily the lie does not have any benefit."

This needs more elaboration.  The Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) said, as found in the two Saheehs:

إِنَّ الكَذِبَ عَلَيَّ لَيْسَ كَكَذِبٍ عَلَى أَحَدٍ، مَنْ كَذَبَ عَلَيَّ مُتَعَمِّدًا فَلْيَتَبَوَّأْ مَقْعَدَهُ مِنَ النَّارِ
"Verily the lie forged against me is not like a lie forged against someone else.  Whoever lies on me intentionally, then let him take his place in the Fire."


From the hadeeth are the following benefits:
[1] Affirmation of a difference between lying on him and lying on someone else.
[2] Affirmation that lying on him carries a severe threat of Hellfire.
[3] Affirmation that lying on someone else is still considered "lying".

Al-Haafith ibn Hajr said, "And it is not implied that affirming the mentioned threat for lying on him (sallallaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) makes lying on other than him permissible.  Rather, other evidence is used to prove the prohibition of lying on other than him." [Fat-hul-Baaree, 3/200]

The prohibition of lying is clear from the texts of the Qur'aan and the Sunnah.  Allaah has commanded us to be with those who are truthful, and His Messenger (sallallaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) has informed us that one of the attributes of the hypocrite is lying.  Thus it is haraam and a major sin, since it is described as a sign of a hypocrite.

Here are some further indications of the correctness of what has been mentioned from the words of Ibn Taymiyyah himself:

1 - Shaykh al-Islaam said, "?The one who finds fault with some of the people of Hadeeth and the people of the Jamaa'ah, that they speak with excessive, loaded words, they are either finding fault with them based on insufficient knowledge or insufficient understanding.  As for the first one (insufficiant knowledge), then it is that they use as proofs dha'eef or mawdhoo' narrations, or aathaar (reports from other than the Prophet, sallallaahu 'alayhe wa sallam), that are not fit to be used as proofs.  As for the second one (insufficient understanding), then it is that they do not understand the authentic narrations?" [al-Fataawee, 4/23]

Two important benefits that we get from this quote are:
[1] Shaykh al-Islaam makes a difference between dha'eef and mawdhoo'.
[2] Shaykh al-Islaam affirms that there are aathaar that can not be used as proofs.

2 - Shaykh al-Islaam said, "?No doubt that this is found with some of them, they use as proofs fabricated narrations in subsidiary and foundational matters, as well as invented aathaar (reports from other than the Prophet, sallallaahu 'alayhe wa sallam), and stories that are not authentic?"  [al-Fataawee, 18/52]

[1] Shaykh al-Islaam makes a difference between fabricated ahaadeeth and fabricated reports and stories from other than the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhe wa sallalm).
[2] Shaykh al-Islaam finds fault with both, later referring to them as "evil."

3 - Shaykh al-Islaam said, "As for 'Az-Zuhd' of Imaam Ahmad and its likes, then there are no fabricated narrations (of the Prophet sallallaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) or stories (of other than him)in it, like what is in these (books of Aboo Nu'aym, Ibn al-Jawzee, and others), for verily he (Imaam Ahmad) did not mention in his books (anything) from anyone who was known to fabricate.  Rather, in them there are some that are dha'eef due to the poor memory of their narrators, just as these (fabricated reports) are not in the Musnad.  And similarly there are no mawdhoo' reports that were intentionally fabricated amongst the marfoo' narrations (of the Messenger sallallaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) in them (Imaam Ahmad's books).  However, in them are things known to be mistakes, errors made by their narrators.  The likes of these are found in most of the books of Islaam, as no book is without errors except the Qur'aan." [al-Fataawee, 18/72]

[1] Shaykh al-Islaam affirmed a difference between fabricated narrations ascribed to the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhe wa sallam), and those ascribed to others.
[2] Shaykh al-Islaam clarifies that Imaam Ahmad did not use reports from anyone known to be a fabricator in any of his books, rather the weak narrations he included were only dha'eef and not mawdhoo'.

4 - Shaykh al-Islaam said, "?And some of it is sheer falsehood (baatil qat'an), like what is mentioned in 'Haqaa'iq at-Tafseer', a large amount (of reports) from Ja'far as-Saadiq and others that are from among the fabricated reports (al-aathaar al-mawdhoo'ah)?"  [al-Fataawee, 11/42]

[1] Shaykh al-Islaam affirms the description 'mawdhoo' for narrations of other than the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhe wa sallam).
[2] Shaykh al-Islaam refers to fabrications that were attributed to Ja'far as-Saadiq, warning against them.
[3] Shaykh al-Islaam calls these fabrications 'sheer falsehood'.[2]

5 - Shaykh al-Islaam said, "...And a party of those who claim (to be upon) the Sunnah and the Hadeeth use as proofs mawdhoo' ahaadeeth (of the Prophet sallallaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) and invented stories (of those other than him), knowing that they are lies?" [al-Fataawee, 11/339]

6 - Shaykh al-Islaam warns against a fabricated story about the severed head of al-Husayn being brought to Yazeed, and other related stories, referring to the one who narrates them as having "no intellect by which to make any distinction between things he says," and "no understanding of what is being narrated." [al-Fataawee, 27/479-483]

And Allaah knows best.

Moosaa ibn John Richardson

********************
سبحانك اللهم وبحمدك
أشهد أن لا إله إلا أنت
أستغفرك وأتوب إليك

This message was edited by Moosaa on 8-22-04 @ 8:53 AM

Moosaa
15-10-2009 @ 7:26 AM    Notify Admin about this post
Abul-'Abbaas Moosaa ibn John Richardson (Jeddah, Saudi Arabia)
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seems like some parts of this thread have been deleted entirely... anyway, i found that the following words need corrected:

quote:
Ibn Hibbaan, who was considered mutasaahil (lenient) in his critisim of narrators, said about al-Waleed...

ibn hibbaan was actually lenient in his praise of those he praised, and some might assume from this that if he criticized someone then it has more weight, and this is generally true for those who were lenient, however, ibn hibbaan is a special case (as i learned some time after this post), he actually was lenient in his praise of narrators, and at the same time, extremely critical in his criticism!  So you can actually find cases where the majority of the critics say that a narrator is dha'eef, and ibn hibbaan calls him abandoned, or maybe even a liar.

and Allaah knows best.

Moosaa ibn John Richardson

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dksadiq
16-10-2009 @ 8:57 AM    Notify Admin about this post
Damilola Sadiq ibn Owodunni (Lagos, Nigeria || Eastern Province, KSA)
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BaarakAllaahu feekum. In brother Moosaa's post above, it was mentioned:
quote:

3 - Shaykh al-Islaam said, "As for 'Az-Zuhd' of Imaam Ahmad and its likes, then there are no fabricated narrations (of the Prophet sallallaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) or stories (of other than him)in it, like what is in these (books of Aboo Nu'aym, Ibn al-Jawzee, and others....[al-Fataawee, 18/72]


"Ibn al-Jawzee" here does not refer to the Imaam, Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyya, rahimahullaah, does it?

JazaakAllaahu khayraa.

Moosaa
17-10-2009 @ 7:17 AM    Notify Admin about this post
Abul-'Abbaas Moosaa ibn John Richardson (Jeddah, Saudi Arabia)
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http://www.salafitalk.net/st/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=6&Topic=5175&sortby=desc

Moosaa ibn John Richardson

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