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Posted By Topic: A clear refutation on those who mix with the people of innovation

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10-01-2009 @ 5:03 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Abu Talha George Millington (Trinidad and Tobago)
Posts: 12
Joined: Sep 2006
ııı ıııı ıııııı ıııııı

ıııı ııııı ııı ıı ııııı ııı ııııııı ı ııııı

It is known that from the Usuul of the Sunnah that one must not listen to the people of innovation or attend their conferences, lectures, meetings etc. However some of us, and may Allah guide us all, have the idea that if it is that we do not go and sit with the people of innovation and desires and their conferences, lectures etc. that we would not be able to expose the Da'wah As Salafeeyah to the people. The answer to this is as follows:

(1) There are clear evidences from the book of Allah and the Sunnah of the Messenger ııı ıııı ıııı ı ııı   which show that it is Haraam to sit down and listen to the people of innovation.

From this is the statement of Allah:

It is He Who has sent down to you (Muhammad) the Book (this Qur'ın). In it are Verses that are entirely clear, they are the foundations of the Book [and those are the Verses of Al-Ahkım (commandments, etc.), Al-Farı'id (obligatory duties) and Al-Hudud (legal laws for the punishment of thieves, adulterers, etc.)]; and others not entirely clear. So as for those in whose hearts there is a deviation (from the truth) they follow that which is not entirely clear thereof, seeking Al-Fitnah (polytheism and trials, etc.), and seeking for its hidden meanings, but none knows its hidden meanings save Allıh. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in it; the whole of it (clear and unclear Verses) are from our Lord." And none receive admonition except men of understanding. (Tafsir At-Tabarı). {Surah 3:7}
Aisha ııı ıııı ıııı said that the Prophet ııı ıııı ıııı ı ııı   said about this verse: "If you see those who follow that which is unclear then they are those who Allah named therefore stay away from them."

Also the statement of Allah:

And it has already been revealed to you in the Book (this Qur'ın) that when you hear the Verses of Allıh being denied and mocked at, then sit not with them, until they engage in a talk other than that; (but if you stayed with them) certainly in that case you would be like them. Surely, Allıh will collect the hypocrites and disbelievers all together in Hell {4:140}

Imam As Sa'di said in his Tafseer: "(but if you stayed with them) certainly in that case you would be like them." Meaning if you sit with them in their aforementioned condition (you would be like them) because you have become satisfied with their disbelief and their mockery and the one who is pleased with sin is like the one who does it."

Also the statement of Allah:

And leave alone those who take their religion as play and amusement, and are deceived by the life of this world. But remind (them) with it (the Qur'ın) lest a person be given up to destruction for that which he has earned, when he will find for himself no protector or intercessor besides Allıh, and even if he offers every ransom, it will not be accepted from him. Such are they who are given up to destruction because of that which they have earned. For them will be a drink of boiling water and a painful torment because they used to disbelieve. {6:70}

(2) It is Ijmaa' (consensus) that sitting with the people of innovation is Haraam.

Imam As Sabuuni said in his book 'Aqeedah As Salaf Ashaabul Hadeeth: "And they (Ahlus Sunnah) dislike the people of innovation, those who have innovated in this religion which is not from it. And they do not love them and they do not befriend them and they do not listen to their speech and they do not sit with them and they do not argue with them about the religionı"

Imam Al Barbahari said: "If you see a man who makes much effort in worship and he is a person of desires, then do not sit with him, and do not listen to him, and do not walk with him on the street."

So how is it that one expects the Da'wah Us Salafeeyah to spread through a deed which Allah detests? In this deen the ends do not justify the means but rather the means take the ruling of the ends. Hence if the means of attaining success in this da'wah is Haraam how can there be a good end.

(3) If we look at the places where the da'wah Us Salafeeyah spread in this time, especially Yemen, we see that Ahlus Sunnah held on to the fundamentals of this methodology of staying away from the people of innovation and desires. And when they did so Allah gave them success.

ı ıı ııı ııııı ıııı ı ıııı ıııı ı ııı ııı ıııııı ı ııııı ıııı : ııı ıııııı ıııııı ııııııı ııııı ıı ııııı ıı ıııı?
Shaikh Muqbil (may Allah have mercy upon him) was asked in this place of sitting which I had: How did the Da'wah As Salafeeyah spread in Yemen? What is the reason?

ııı : ııııı ıııııı ı ıııı ıııııı ıı ııı ııııı ıııı ıııı ııııı.
He said: The reason is by distinguishing (ourselves), we distinguished ourselves from the people of Bid'ah and therefore Allah spread the Sunnah.

ı ııı ııııı: ıı ııııı ıı ııı ııııı ıııı ııı ıııı ııııı ııı ı ıııı ıı ıı ııı ı ıııı ııııııı ıı ı ııııı ıı ı .
And he gave an example: that a person from the people of innovation came in a Masjid in order to speak there, then everyone in that Masjid left it- meaning they made Hajr (seperation) from him and humiliated him.

ıııı ıııııı ıııııı ı ı ııııı ııııı ı ııııı ıııııı ııııı ı ıı ııııı ıııı ıı ıııııı.
Meaning they were satisfied with the Sunnah, and they knew the great station of it and knew the evil of innovation and the evil which comes from it.

ııııı ı ıı ıııı ı ıııı ııı ııııı ıı ııııııı ı ııı ııııı ııı ıııı ııııı ıııııııı ııııı ı ı ıııııııı ı ıııııııı ıııı ıııııı ıııı ııııı ııııı ı ııııı ııı ııııı ı ııııú ıııııı ııııı.
It was- my brothers- distinguishing Ahlus Sunnah from the partisans and Ahlul Bid'ah that was a great reason for the spread of the Sunnah. And blending and mixing with them will have the opposite effect and it is a reason for the conquering of Ahlul Bid'ah and its people over the Sunnah and its people, therefore innovations spread.

ıııı ıııı ıı ıııııı ı ıııııı ııı ııııı ı ıııııı ıııııı ııı ı ıııııııı ıııı ıııııııı ıı ııııı. ııı ".
I ask Allah to keep ourselves and you firm upon the Sunnah and to make us ack upon it and to love and hate for the sake of it, Yes.

ıııııı : ıııı ııııııı ııııııı ııı ııııı ııııııı ııııııı ııı ı ı ı (ııııı
Origin: The tape: The firm answers on the questions about new methodologies side A.
Lost are those who are impatient in giving this da'wah and compromise principles thinking that it would bring good. However, good only comes with patience and standing firm upon the book of Allah and the Sunnah not by compromising and watering down the fundamentals.
There are also Fatawa and statements from the major scholars. This is what Shaikh Rabee' Ibn Hadi Al Madkhali had to say.

ıııı : ıı ıı ııııı ıı ııı ııı ıı ıııı ııı ııııı ııı ııııııı ııııı ııııııııı ııııııı ııııı ııı ııııı ııı ıııııı ıııııııı ...ıııııı ı

ıQuestion: Is there any advice oh Shaikh for the one who goes to the sittings of the people of desires and attends their lectures and gives them Salaams in order to make sure of what they are saying and debate with them?

ıııııı : ııı ııııı ıııı ıııı ıııı ııı ııııııı ıı ııııı ııııı ıı ııııı ıııııı ıı ııııı ,ıııı ııı ııııı ııııııı ıııı ıı ııı ııııı ıııııı ııı ıııı ıııı ıııııı ııııııı ııııııııı ııııııı ııı ııııı ııııııı ıııııı ıııııı ııııı ıı ıııııı ıııııııı ıııııı ıııı ,ııı ıııı ııı ıı ıııııı ıı ıııııı ıııııı ıııııı ııııı ıı ıı ıııı ıı ıııııııı ııı ııııı ıııı ııııııı ,ııı ııı ıı ıııııı ııııııııı ıııı ıı ııııı ıııı ıııı ııııı ııı ıııı ıııııı ,ııı ıııııı ıııı ıııı ııı ıııııı ıııııı ııııı ııııı ııııı ıııııı ıııı ııı ıııııı ıııııı ıııı ııııı ııııııı ıı ıııııı ,ııı ııııı ııı ııııı ,ıı ııııı ııı ııı ııııı.

The answer: At most times such a person becomes a Hizbee (partisan), either a Tableegh, or from the sects of the Sufis, or the sects of the Rafidees or the sects of the Jahmeeyah. For such people it is a must that Allah takes them to task because they have conflicted the guidance of Muhammad ııı ıııı ıııı ı ııı   and what he directed toward and they have conflicted the guidance of the Salaf and has fought their religion. Those people usually are not left alone and become members of evil groups. Ibn 'Aqeel who was a mountains from the mountains of intelligence and in depth thought and knowledge was advised not to go with the Mu'tazilah but he went to them and became a Mu'tazilee. Abu Tharr who was from the students of Daraqutni and Imam of the Sunnah heard a speech that took him away and became an Ashari. Abdur Razzaq sat with Ja'far Ibn Sulaiman Ad Dib'ee and he had Shi'ism with him then he changed. He went to Shi'ism and looked at it then the poor fellow ended up Shi'ah. But his Shi'ism wasn't extreme, we do not oppress him but there were the remnants of it.

ııııı ııııı ııı ıııııı ıı ııı ıı ııııı ııı ıııı ,ıııı ıııı ııııı ııııı ıı ııııı ıııı ıııııı ıııııı ııııııı ıııı ıııııı ııııııı ıııı ıııı : (ıııı ııı ıııııı ıııııı ııııı ııııı ııııı ııııı ııııı ııııı ,ııııı ııııı ııı ıı ııııı ıııı ıı ııııı ııı ıııı ıı ııı ııı ıııı ıııı ,ııııı ııııı ııı ıı ıııı ııııı ıııı ıı ııı ııı ıııı ııııı)  ıııı ıııııı ıııııı ıı ııı ıııı ıı ıııı ııııı ıııı ııı :ıııı ıı ııııı ııııı ıı ıııı ıııı ıııııı ııııı ıı ıııı ıııııı ıııı ıı ııııı ııı ıı ııııı ııı ııııııı ııı ıııı ııı ıı ııııı ıııı ııı ıııı ııııı ıı ıııııı ıııı ıııı ıııı ıııı ıı ııı ııııı ııı ıı ıııııı ,ııııı ııı ııı ıııı ııııııı ıııı ıııııı ııı ,ıııı ııı ııı ıııı ıııı ıııı ııı

Hence the one who sits with the people of falsehood must be affected by it even if he would like to refuse. However he sees himself he must be affected because the Messenger who is the truthful and one who has been deemed truthful (by Allah) ııı ıııı ıııı ı ııı said: "Verily the example of a good companions and an evil companions is like the one who carries perfume and the blacksmith, for the one who carried perfume it is either he puts it on you or you buy it from him or you find from him a good scent, and the blacksmith is one who either burns your clothing or you find from him an evil smell." Meaning that the good companions by the will of Allah has three conditions all of them being good. It is either he gives you something and gives you a gift and tells you to go ahead, this is your perfume, he presents to you 'Ulbah (a type of perfume) and gives you. Or you buy it from him, you benefited from him and this good. You didn't buy alcohol or anything Haraam but you bought something good that Allah loves and desires from you in prayer. It is desired from you also when one enters the Masjid, you benefited from him, or that you find from him a good scent and this is good.

ııııı ııııı ııııı ııııı ııı ıı ıııı ııııı ıııı ıı ııı ııı ıııı ııııı ıııı ııııı ıııııı ıı ııı ıı ıı ııı ııııııı ııııı

And the evil companion is like a blacksmith. It is either he burns your clothing or that you find from him an unbearable scent that can result in you getting worms or being sick or anything else other than that and Allah's refuge is sought.

ııııı ııııı ııııı ıı ııııı ııı ııı ııı , ( ıııııı ııı ııı ııııı ıııııı ııııı ıı ııııı ) (ııııııı ııııı ııııı ıııı ııı ııı ııııııı ) ııı ııııııı ıııııı ııııı ıı ııııı ,ıııı ıııııı ıııııııı ııııı ıııı ıııı : ıı ıııı ,ıı ııııı ıııııı ıııı ııı ıııııı ıııı ıııııı ııııııı ııııı ııııııı ıııııı ııııı ıııı ııı ıııııı ııııı ıııııı ııı ıııııı ıı ıııııı ıııı ııııı .

For the evil companion must have an evil effect on you, "And a man is upon the religion of his friends so let him look at those whom he befriends." "Companions on that day would be enemies to each other except for the believers." The people of innovation and desires are not of them (the believers), you have verses and Ahadeeth that warn against this, and you say: No, I am still going, who gave you protection? If it is that that the Messenger ııı ıııı ıııı ı ııı warned the companions and the Salaf we leaders like mountains and they used to cover their ears not desiring to hear the people of innovation.

ııı ııı ıııı ıııııı ııııı ııııııııı ııııı ıı ıııı ııı ııııı ııı ıııı

As for you, you go and you visit him and you are present for lectures then his evil and smoke and whispers will fall upon you.

ııı ııııı ııııı ,ııııı ıııııı ııııı ıı ıııııı ııı ııı ıııııı ,ııııı ııııııııı ııııı ıııııı ,ııııııı ıııııı ııııııı ıııı ıııı ııııııı ııııı ııı ıı ıııııı ıııı ıııı ıııııı ,ıııı ıı : ııııı ıı ııııı! ıı ıı ıı ıııı ııııııı ıı ııııı ııı ııııı ıııı ııııı ıııı ıııııı ıııı ,ııı ıııı ıı ıııı ıııı .

We have experienced much, we have experienced much, more than thirty years we have experiences. Those who have fooled themselves became wasted and went astray. Their end is inescapable, they become wastes we ask Allah for his mercy. Whatever level of intelligence he has reached verily Allah takes him to task, we say to him: Your intelligence is of no benefit! It is a must that you take the means to safeguard the religion that Allah has given you, and to protect it, this is a blessing that you don't play with.

ıııı ıı ıııı ıı ıııııııı ı ıı ııı ıııııı - ıııı ııııı ıııııı ıı ııı ıııııı ııııı ııııı ıııı ıııııııı ııııııııı ıııııııı ııııııı ıııı ııııııı ,ıı ıı ııııı ıııı ııııı ıııı ıııı ıııı ııııı ıııı ...ıııı ıı ııııı ııı ıııı ııııııı ,ıııııı ıııı ııııııı : ( ııı ıııı ııııı ıııııı ) ııııı ıııııı ııııı ıııı ııııı ıııı ıııı ıııı ııı ıııı !

At this time those who you see from the partisans- in this country- their basis was all Salafi. Every last one of them became wastes because of their mixing, and living with, and reading (the books) and listening to the people of desires. Everyone you see now and it is said about him so and so is Hizbee so and so is Hizbeeı everyone of them did not become wastes except by this means, they take it through this idea ( I will take the truth and leave the falsehood) and he take the falsehood and leaves the truth and becomes an enemy to the truth who is in war with those upon the truth.

   ııııııı : ( ıııı ıııııı ıı ıııı : ıı ıııı ıı ıııı ıııı ı ıııııı ıııı ıııı ıı ııııı ıııı ıııııı ) ıııı ııı ıı ııııı ıı ıııııı ııı ııııı ı ıııııı ıı ıııı ıı ııııı ııııı ıııııı ıııı ııııı ı ııııı ıı ııı ıııı ıı ııı ııııı ıı ııııı ıı ııı ıııııı ııı ıııı ıı ııı ııııı ııııı ı ıııııı ııııı ı ıııııı ıııı ı ıı ııı ııı ııııııı ııııı ıı ııııı ıı ııııı

Shaikh Yahya An Najmi said about the explanation of Fudail Ibn Iyyad's statement: "Do not sit with a person of innovation, for verily I fear that curses are sent upon you." I say that this a warning from sitting with the people of innovation, for verily he is not safe from the curse of Allah being sent upon him because of their innovation, hence the one who is present with them from Ahlus Sunnah has a share in this curse as the one who is present in the sittings of good and the sittings of the Sunnah, and the sittings of truth, and whomsoever sits in these sittings he has a share in its good.

(From Irshaad Us Saari the explanation of Sharh Us Sunnah Al Barbahari p.g 300)ıhreadid=344636
ıııııııııııııı :
ııı ıııı ıı ıııı : ııı ıııı ı ıı ııı ııı ıııı ıı ııııııııııı ı ıııı ııııııı ıııııııııı ı ı ıııı : ııııı ıııı ııııı ı ııııııı ıı ıııııı ııııı ıııı ııııı ı
Shaikh Rabee' Ibn Hadi was asked: What is the ruling on the one who says I am Salafi, and after this he sits with the people of partisanship and leaves his Salafi brothers, and says: Upon us is to learn, let us leave refutations because it wastes our times

ııııııııı ııııı ııııııı ıııı ıı ıııı ııııııı ıııı ıııı ııı ııı :

Shaikh, Al Alamah Rabee' Ibn Haadi Al Madkhali (May Allah preserve him) answered with the following

ı ıııı ıııı ıı ııı ııı ı ıııııııı ı ııı ııııı ııııııııı ıııııııı ı ııııııı ııı ııııı ı ı ııııı.. [... ıııı ııı ııııı...] ıııııııı .

Allah knows best, in this there is sickness and deviance and other than this how can he stay away from the Salafis and sit with the people of Innovation? And ı.. (words that were unclear) refutations.

ı ıııı ıııı ııııı ıı ıııı ııııııı ı ııııııı ı ı ıı ııııı ıııııııı ı ııııı ıı ıııııııı ı ıı ııııııı ııı ı ıııııııı ı ıııııııı ı ııııı ııııııııııı ı ııııııııı.

Refuting the people of innovation is from clarifying and protecting the Shariah, and it is from commanding the good and preventing the evil and it is from being sincere to Allah and his book and his Messenger and the leaders of the Muslims and their commoners

ııı ıııı ıııııı ıı ııı.

This person has deviance and sickness

ıııııı ııııı ııı ııı ııı ııııııııı ıııı ıı ıııııı ıııııı ııııı. ııı .

He is therefore advised and if he continues upon this way my opinion is that he should be classified among the people of innovation, yes.

ııı ııı ıııııııı ıııı ı ıııı ıııı : ıııı ıııı ııı ıııı ı ıı ııııı ıı ııııııı

As Imam Ahmad was asked (may Allah have mercy on him): A man sits with someone and I have forbade him from sitting with him
ııı : ııııı

He said: Advise him
ııı : ııı

The questioner said: He refused

ııı ıııııı ıııııı.

He said: Classify him with his friend.

ıııı ııı ııııı ı ııııııı ıııı ııııı ıı ııııı ıııı ııııı ı ıı ııııı ıııı ııııı.

This is how the people of Bid'ah are, the souls are Junnudun Mujannadah, whichever ones are known to each other will unite and whichever ones have dislikes for each other they will separate

ı ıııı ııı ııııı : " ııı ıııı ııııı ııııı ı ıı ııı ııııı ııııı".

And for this reason the Salaf have said: Whosever's innovation is hidden from us, his companions are not hidden from us.

ıııııı ı ıııııııı ı ıııııııı ıııı ııı ııı ıı ııı ıııı ııı ııııııı ıııı ııııı ıı ııııı ıııı ııııı ı ıı ııııı ıııı ııı

Love, sitting together and living together are evidence that this one is from them because the souls are Junuudun Mujannadah whichever one knows each other they will unite and whichever ones dislike each other they will seperate.

ı ıııı ıııı ı ııı ıııı ııı ııııı ııı

13-01-2009 @ 5:19 PM    Notify Admin about this post
unspecified ساجد (Mumbai (India))
Posts: 2031
Joined: Jul 2005
JazakAllaah khayr akhee Musa.

Does anyone know where did Allamah Ubayd hafithahullah reply to one doubt that was raised. Someone said that Imaam Ibn Baaz rahimahullah gave dawah to some innovators and he had tele-links with them. So, Shaykh Ubayd said that Imaam Ibn Baaz rahimahullah may have had his reasons and he did what he did, but inshAllaah you will never find Ubayd going to the conferences of the Hizbis. Can someone give me the reference for this quote of Shaykh Ubayd hafithahullah?

BaarakAllaahu feekum.

06-03-2009 @ 2:12 AM    Notify Admin about this post
unspecified ساجد (Mumbai (India))
Posts: 2031
Joined: Jul 2005
I found the quote of Shaykh Ubayd hafidhahullah. It's in the immensely beneficial pdf found at

It has some very important questions and answers regarding manhaj. This lecture was given many years ago but SubhaanAllaah some similar doubts are still being spread!

May Allaah give us thabaat. Aameen.

11-01-2010 @ 11:33 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Zayd Abu Ubayd (Peqin,Albania)
Posts: 795
Joined: Oct 2008
Question and Answers with Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee

This is a question and answer session that took place with Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee al-Madkhalee during Ramadan 1424H concerning the affairs of tabdee`, jarh, hajr and related affairs.

Question 1: On Companionship and Giving Advice

Question: Shaykh, a person mixes with the opposers, is he to be aligned with them?!

Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee: Yes, he is to be aligned them.

Question: Does [giving] advice consume a long time? Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee: No, it does not consume [lots of] time, it is in accordance with what a person sees, sometimes it can be in a [single] sitting, sometimes it could be in two sittings, sometimes it could be in three when that person has a shubhah (doubt, misconception), and sometimes it could be with [just] a word. This is in accordance with the situation of the one being advised, and the [nature] of the issue in which the one being advised is in.

Question: This aligning (ilhaaq), O Shaykh, the one who is put alongside with the person that is an innovator, is he to be boycotted [as well]?

Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee: How can we not boycott him, put him alongside him, meaning, boycott him!

Question: There is a Salafee person who mixes with an Ikhwaanee, does he take the same ruling?

Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee: Yes, put him alongside him.

Question: Whilst looking at the benefits (masaalih) and harms (mafaasid) O Shaykh?

Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee: The benefits that they speak of, and keep revolving around, then the harms that result in the likes of these situations are greater than them (the benefits). For the harm of the likes of this one (i.e. a Salafee who mixes with a Hizbee) is greater upon Ahl us-Sunnah, more severe than the harm of the Hizbiyyeen upon them. Because caution can be taken against a clear Hizbee, as for this one who is between (this) and between (that), he comes to those (the Hizbees) and he comes to those (the Salafees), he is corrupted by them (the Hizbees), and he is not rectified by them (the Salafees), therefore the caution from him, it is obligatory that it be greater.

Questions 2-4: On Boycotting, Types of Opposition, and Distinguishing Between the Innovator and His Followers

Question 2: Some people in this time hold the absence of hajr (boycotting) in this time and that [the need for] hajr is not found, using the fataawaa of Shaykh Naasir al-Abaanee, so how do we refute them?

Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee: This is not correct... this speech, it is not correct, Shaykh al-Albaanee (rahmatulLaah `alayhi) is speaking about what he knows, and then boycotting brings benefit by some people (when it is done by them), so negating this Sunnah is not correct, completely, it is not correct!

Question 3: Is every opposer (mukhaalif) an Innovator, O Shaykh?

Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee: No...No... there is permissible differing (khilaaf saa`igh) in which differing is permitted, meaning an issue when it is an issue of a fiqh judgement, so this (person) takes a view and considers that his evidences are stronger, so this is not to be considered ibtidaa` (innovating). As for the opposition that is intended by the one who desires this question, then what is intended by it is speech concerning the `usool (foundations) of the religion. Yes, concerning the beliefs of the Muslims, then not everyone who opposes this is an Innovator, because an ignorant person may oppose, he does not know, he does not know whether this is opposition, he believes it is the truth. So what is obligatory is to explain to him, and when he persists after that, he is an Innovator due to his opposition, it is necessary to explain, clarify (bayaan).

Question 4: Is there a difference between a leader (ra's) and a follower (taabi`)?

Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee: [Yes] No doubt... that there is a difference between an Innovator being a head of innovation, or a caller to innovation, or a founder (originator) of innovation, and between his followers, because his followers vary, since amongst them is one who knows and one who does not know.

Questions 5-7: Warning against disparaged people outside of their own cities, obligation of advice when it is required to be given, and listening to the recitations of the Innovators

Question 5: A person is disparaged in a particular city, and he is not known in another city... is it permissible to warn against this person?

Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee: If he is not known, so long as he is not a caller, then it is sufficient that his ruling remain amongst the people of his city. However, when he (the one disparaged) comes across people of another city, then the basis, support (of warning against him) in this matter [returns back] to the one whose speech is given consideration and who is depended upon from the people of his (the disparaged person's) city, from those who have spoken about him. This is because the townspeople of that man are more knowledgeable of him, and [this is] with the condition that his speech about him is upon truth and justice.

Question 6: There is for example, one to whom you say, "Advise your brother", he says to you, "It is not obligatory upon me to advise, if you wish, you advise, I will advise", is this correct? Meaning, it is not obligatory upon specific individuals?

Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee: The Prophet (sallAllaahu `alayhi wasallam) says, "Whoever amongst you sees an evil, then let him change it with his hand, and if he is not able, then with his tongue, and if he is not able, then with his heart, and that is the weakest of faith". So when you see someone who has an obligatory right of naseehah from you, then it is obligatory upon you [to give it to him] before him (the other person), unless you have an overwhelming belief that he will not accept it from you, and perhaps he may accept it from him (the other person) due to his nearness to him, or because he is affable (i.e. close, friendly) with him. So then, the giving of naseehah, goes on to him, and it is removed from you, and this is a correct and considered viewpoint.

Question: So the giving of advice is not removed (from that person) in totality?

Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee: No, it is not removed from him in totality.

Question: Some youth in Libya heard some speech of Shaykh Rabee` that it is not obligatory to give naseehah...(words not understood)

Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee: What does he...?

Question: Warn from him without naseehah!

Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee: No, clarification (al-bayaan), clarification [is given] to him, advice for his own benefit. There is no binding link between warning and between inviting him (to what is correct), namely, that calling him to the truth is one topic, and warning from him is a separate topic.

Question: So they warn from him without naseehah O Shaykh? Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee: The one whose innovation becomes known, and clarification (to him) and giving of advice to him is established, then it is not obligatory upon the people to advise him, it is obligatory upon them to follow their scholars regarding him, yes.

Question 7: Is it permissible to listen to the recitation cassettes of the people of innovation?

Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee: By Allaah, it is more befitting that that is not done, because sometimes his heart may become attached to him, and it was said to Ibn Seereen, "Can I recite an aayah to you?", and he said, "No, not even half an aayah". Why? Because something of amazement with him might fall into his heart, and love of his recitation, and so he loves him from this angle, and thus he becomes a lover of the people of desires and innovations.

Questions 8-10: How to Rectify the Confused and Deceived Youth, Regarding Those Whom the Scholars have Differed Over, and How To Deal with the Innovators When They Have Strength and the Upper Hand

Question 8: What is the most exemplified way in dealing with the youth who have been confused, deceived by the people of innovation, and in directing them to the safe path?

Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee: The most exemplified way is that they are referred to the people of knowledge regarding everyone about whom they have become confused, deceived, [to those people] amongst the people of knowledge who have spoken regarding him (i.e. from the people of innovation). How?!! For example, when so and so scholar speaks about any Zayd from amongst the people, and then they are confused, deceived regarding him (i.e. regarding that person who has already been spoken against), then it is said, "Ask so and so, because he has already spoken about him, and he is amongst the most knowledgeable people about him", so he they refer him back to him (that scholar). For by the likes of such a one, Allaah, by His bounty and mercy, raises the talbees (deception) made upon the people.

Question 9: Callers about whom the Scholars have differed over as regards their tawtheeq and tajreeh, or ta`deel and tajreeh, what is obligatory upon the general people amongst the Salafiyyeen regarding them (i.e. those differed over)?

Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee: It is obligatory upon the general people amongst the Salafiyyeen to look at the saying of the one with the proof and evidence, regarding the one about whom the Scholars have differed over, in both jarh and ta`deel, as is the situation regarding those whom the Scholars differed over in either jarh or ta`deel during the era of narration (of ahaadeeth). For we find that Abu Haatim, Ahmad, al-Bukhaaree, Abu Daawood, an-Nasaa'ee and their likes, may Allaah have mercy upon them, differed over a narrator, and then others oppose them. So one comes and he commends one of them, and another comes and disparages. So Ahmad, Abu Haatim, and al-Bukhaaree commend, and Abu Daawood disparages, and an-Nasaa'ee disparages, and Abu Zur`ah disparages, and like this... So then we look at their statements and we depend upon the proof, so whoever brought the proof, then he is given precedence. When the person making the disparagement brings his jarh, then overwhelmingly, it is the case that the disparagement is given precedence, because the one disparaging has additional knowledge with him, and then his saying is depended upon. And ta'deel in the presence of the jarh mufassar is not accepted, even if it was from a great (person). This is what is obligatory, it is obligatory that he look at the proof of each faction, and whoever brought the proof, then he has tread the path (to the goal), and it is obligatory to make ittibaa` of him.

Question: But Shaykh, the general person does not know the proof (hujjah)!!!

Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee: The speech regarding the person (being spoken of) is for the one who has ability! As for the general people who do not have any knowledge, then there is nothing for them but taqleed of the Scholars, and making ittibaa` of the scholars regarding this.

Question: The scholars can sometimes differ in at-ta`deel and at-tajreeh...

Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee: [interjecting]... the general people make ittibaa` of them, they follow the Scholars.

Question: The Scholars differ regarding ta`deel of a person, and tajreeh of him!

Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee: Who will direct the general people? It is you, the students of knowledge, you look at who is the person with the proof, and then you direct the people, you say "the correct, true saying is the saying of so and so, the evidences are with him", yes, the general people are not left to be wasted!

Question 10: When the people of innovation have strength in the land, and they have the power, ability to fight against the da`wah, are they to be boycotted?!!!

Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee: No... No... caution, vigilance is taken against them, yes, caution is taken against the people of desires and innovations when Ahl us-Sunnah are weak. For it is obligatory upon Ahl us-Sunnah to be cautious, vigilant about the people of innovation and that they are witful regarding them. Because in taking this way (of boycotting) there is an eradication of the lineage (i.e. continuance) of Ahl us-Sunnah, so it is not permissible for them to take this (way). It is obligatory upon them to be witful, vigilant regarding them, and that they hold out, that they hold out, as much as they are able, that they are witful, vigilant, and that they hold out as much as they are able, because they are weak.

Questions 11-12: When to Start Taking Clear Positions Against Those Who Fall Into Deviation From The Salafees, And Regarding Association with the People of Innovation

Question 11: When a person falls into deviations (inhiraafaat), and does not return (from them), some of the youth say that he is Salafee and that he has errors. So is this saying [...unclear]... about those individuals?

Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee: Deviations (inhiraafaat) are of types (aqsaam) and levels (maraatib), so either the deviations will be towards innovations, or they will be less than that, meaning towards fisq (sin), so when they (the deviations) are towards innovations, then all of the speech regarding this is what has already preceded (in the preceding answers).

Question 12: When a youth warns from an individual with a corrupt manhaj, then (certain) individuals rush to us, saying, "he is Salafee, his `usool are Salafiyyah, and we shall have patience upon him just like Shaykh Rabee` had patience with al-Maghraawee and `Adnaan `Ar`oor, and just like Nuh had patience with his people"... so what is your saying?

Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee: This is not correct, when the people (who had) patience (in relation to that person) have ended their (time) of patience, then what do you want?! It is obligatory upon us to follow them, when they (the people who showed patience over him) have ended (their time of patience), then it has ended. As for when it has not, then the speech is not for us, it is for the people of knowledge regarding this matter, they are to be waited upon (i.e. wait for them), they are the ones who will issue (a position regarding this).

Question: Some of the Salafee youth gives salaams to the people of innovation and shakes hands with them, so when you explain (matters) to him and advise him he says (as an excuse) that there are worldly benefits (masaalih) between him and that person, so is this a (valid) excuse?

Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee: When he has a ta'weel saa`igh (an interpretation in the matter which is permissible, acceptable), then there is no harm, as for when his ta'weel (interpretation of the matter) is not permissible, then no. The religion is given precedence over the benefits of the world. Yes.

Questions 13-15: Illustrative Example of What and What is not a Harm or Benefit in Boycotting, And Examining Those Who Claim Repentance from Hizbiyyah by Monitoring Their Conduct

Question 13: There is a man with us, Shaykh Rabee` was asked about him a while ago

Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee: [interjecting]... where, in Libya?

Questioner: In Libya

Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee: Yes

Questioner: So he [the Shaykh] said that he is from Ahl ul-Bid`ah, and he is to be boycotted, and [that he is] a Hizbee. And acting upon this speech was concluded, and the youth took this fatwaa, and they boycotted this individual. However he has some strength in the land and he was able to remove some of the Salafi youth from the pulpits (of the mosques, i.e. have them suspended), and the youth do not cease to boycott him and call to boycotting him!!

Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee: When it does not affect Ahl us-Sunnah, and all praise is due to Allaah, and one or two (from amongst them) are suspended, then this is not [considered] an effect, this is not an effect, and the Sunnah remains, and is [still] apparent. As for when it is feared for Ahl us-Sunnah in general from the likes of this [such that] their lineage (i.e. continuity) will be cut off [and ended], then no! Shaykh Rabee` does not speak with this, and we know him to be the greatest of the people in guarding over the benefits and harms.

Question 14: When we wish to warn from a person, they say that "he has Salafee usool", so who is the one to judge that he has Salafee usool?

Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee: This is floating question... Salafee usool, where is he going?!!! The one whose usool are Salafee, he is a Salafee, and a Salafee is not warned against. Only a Khalafee is warned against, and therefore, there will not remain with him Salafee usool, or [word unclear] an asl from the usool of Salafiyyah with him, what will remain?!! Meaning the speech is not precise, explain to us with an example that explains it so that I can understand it!

Question 15: Is the report of the one who repents from Hizbiyyah accepted, and is the boycott removed from him immediately, or after a year as `Umar (radiyAllaahu `anhu) did with Subaygh bin `Asal?!!

Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee: The one who repents from Hizbiyyah, we examine (monitor) him, we examine him! [We do] not, when he comes to us at length, leave him and for mere spite say "find fault with him"? No! We examine him. How do we examine him? By him living with us (i.e. mixing amongst us) . Yes, he opposed us, [then] when he says "I repent to Allaah"... then [we say] "Welcome", we only have the outward (manifestation) [to judge by], but this outward manifestation is made apparent by what? With interaction, mixing (with him), and if he was hiding something from us, then verily Allaah, the Sublime and Exalted will uncover it. And we say, "walk amongst the people", and we will see him, in his conduct, in his actions, and in his istiqaamah upon the Salafee manhaj, and if we see him upon other than that, then his hidden (reality) will have become apparent, and we will have known him as a kadhdhaab (liar). And alongside that we also guard against ourselves.

11-01-2010 @ 11:36 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Zayd Abu Ubayd (Peqin,Albania)
Posts: 795
Joined: Oct 2008
The Rulings on Groups and Parties
  Regarding Co-operation with Groups and Parties in Opposition to the Way of the Salaf
Author: Committe of Major Scholars
Article ID : MNJ030002  [3937]  

Shaikh Suhaib Hasan Abdul-Ghaffaar, hafizahullaah, head of the 'Noble Quraan Society' in London requested a verdict from the Committee of Major Scholars in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. So the reply was Fatwaa no. 18870 dated 11/6/1417H which corresponds to Wednesday the 23rd of October 1996, and it was signed by: (i) The noble Shaikh and prominent scholar Shaikh Abdul-Azeez ibn Abdullaah ibn Baaz and (ii) Shaikh Abdul-Azeez ibn Abdullaah Aal ash-Shaikh and (iii) Shaikh Saalih ibn Fawzaan al-Fawzaan and (iv) Shaikh Abdullaah ibn Abdur-Rahmaan al-Ghudayaan and (v) Shaikh Bakr ibn Abdullaah Aboo Zayd, hafizahumullaah wa Ayyadahum bifadlihi.

Note: The number of questions which Shaikh Suhaib put to the Committee of Major Scholars was two. The first of the questions from Shaikh Suhaib:

"Based upon the Saying of Allaah, the Most High:

Help you one another in al-Birr and at-Taqwaa, but do not help one another in sin and transgression. Soorah al-Maaidah (5):2

It is said that it is obligatory to co-operate with all of the Islamic Jamaaahs, even though they differ with us with regard to methodologies and their way in giving dawah. So Jamaaatut-Tableegh has a way of giving dawah different to the way of the Ikhwaanul-Muslimeen and Hizbut-Tahreer and Jamaaatul-Jihaad and the Salafees. So how is this co-operation to be? And is it restricted for example to joint participation in conferences and gatherings? And what is to be the case when dawah is being given to non-Muslims, since confusion may be caused in the minds of new Muslims by the fact that each Jamaaah from these Jamaaahs will direct them to their own centres and their own scholars, which will confuse them. So how will it be possible to avert this matter?"

The Committee of Major Scholars replied:

"What is obligatory is to co-operate with the Jamaaah that proceeds upon the manhaj (methodology) of the Book and the Sunnah and that which the Salaf of the Ummah were upon in calling to the Tawheed of Allaah, the One free of all imperfections, and making worship purely and sincerely for Him, and warning against shirk and innovations and sins, and to advise the Jamaaahs that are contrary to that.

So if they return to what is correct, then they are to be co-operated with. But if they persist upon being contrary then it is obligatory to keep away from them and to adhere to the Book and the Sunnah.

Then co-operation with the Jamaaah that adheres to the manhaj (methodology) of the Book and the Sunnah will be upon everything that is good, righteousness and obedience to Allaah whether gatherings, conferences, lessons or lectures and in everything containing benefit for Islaam and the Mu

16-01-2010 @ 11:36 AM    Notify Admin about this post
unspecified ساجد (Mumbai (India))
Posts: 2031
Joined: Jul 2005
Hadhrat Abul-Jawzaa (d. 83H) said, "That apes and pigs live next to me is more loved by me than if one of them (i.e. People of Desires) lives next to me." (Sharh-Usoolul-I'tiqaad, 1/131)

He also said, "That I should sit with pigs is more beloved to me than that I should sit with anyone from the innovated sects." (reported in al-Hilyah, 3/78 and Ibn Sa'd, 7/224)

source: The book "Foundations of the Sunnah" of Imaam Ahmad bin Hanbal rahimahullah.

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