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Posted By Topic: Lifting The Blame From A Deobandee Claim - Nabeedh-ut-Tamr! -- page: 1 2

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08-09-2007 @ 4:14 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Abu Abd Ar Rahman Abd Al Adheem Ibn Faheem ibn Zia ibn Ma'een (KSA/ Bangalore, India)
Posts: 305
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Ruling Upon Wudhoo With Nabeedh-uth-Thamr

Summary of allegation Upon Ibn al-Qayyim rahimahullaah

1. Ibn al-Qayyim in I?laam ul Muwaqqi?een Volume 1 page 542 point number 1 under heading 168, said about the hanafeeyah that they say, : nabeedh yani khajoor ka sheerey se wudhu jaiz hai' .
2. According to the hanafee fiqh, Nabeedh that is permissible is not Khajoor Ka Sheera but only water used to soak dates.
3. So the author is misleading everyone and ascribing things to the hanafee fiqh that which is not present in them.

Below are the words of Ibn al-Qayyim rahimahullaah in I?laam


The hanafeeyah did not have anything to say with regards to the statements of Ibn al-Qayyim rahimahullaah for several hundred years but it is the deobandees who have an objection!!!

So my first response to the deobandees is that the reason why ?Khajoor Ka Sheera? allegation is incorrectly attributed to ibn al-Qayyim because Ibn al-Qayyim did not author this book in Urdu and more importantly the deobandee ?ulamaa? did not have any time to teach him Urdu in their soul to-soul meetings with the dead as they were too busy teaching the Messenger of Allaah Sallallahu alaihi wa Sallam Urdu language!!!

Attached is the scan from Rasheed Ahmed Gangohi?s book which claims ?

?Once a person saw the Messenger of Allaah Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam in his dream, conversing in Urdu. So he asked O Messenger of Allaah Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam, from where have you learnt this language ? You are an Arab? , then he (Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam) said: Ever since I have met the Ulamaa of Deoband , I have learnt this language (Urdu)!!!

Secondly, Ibn al-Qayyim explains what other kind of nabeedh-ut-tamr hanafeeyah have made permissible to make wudhoo with.

: : .

[ I?laam Juz 2 /489]

Ibn al-Qayyim rahimahullaah said: Forty-Third Reason ?
Verily! You rejected the established Sunnah from the Messenger of Allaah Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam of wiping over the socks and you said: This is in opposition to the Qur?aan. And you made it permissible making Wudhoo with prohibited wine derived from nabeedh-ut-tamr and the intoxicant wine is not established (from the Sunnah) but rather it is in complete opposition to the Qur?aan..

Insha Allaah in my next set of posts I will list the type of nabeedh that is permissible to drink (not making wudhoo) from the ahadeeth of the Messenger of Allaah Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam and give exact quotes from the books of hanafee fiqh to confirm what Ibn al-Qayyim rahimahullaah has said.

10-09-2007 @ 9:24 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Abu Abd Ar Rahman Abd Al Adheem Ibn Faheem ibn Zia ibn Ma'een (KSA/ Bangalore, India)
Posts: 305
Joined: Nov 2002
Criticism Of Imaam al-Bukhaaree Upon Hanafee Blind Followers

Baab The Impermissibility of making wudhoo with Nabeedh and Intoxicants and Hasan al Basree and Abul Aaliyah hated it and Ataa (Ibn Abee Rabaah) said Tayammum is more dearer to me than making wudhoo with Nabeedh and Milk.

Alee bin Abd-Allaah narrated to us who said, Sufyaan narrated to us who said, Az-Zuhree narrated to us upon the authority of Abee Salamah from  Ayesha radhiAllaahu anha from the Messenger of Allaah Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam that he said:

Every intoxicating drink is haraam.

Narrated Sa?eed ibn Abee Burda: That Abu Musa Al-Ash'ari radhiAllaahu anhu said that the Prophet had sent him to Yemen and he asked the Prophet about certain (alcoholic) drink which used to be prepared there The Prophet said, "What are they?" Abu Musa said, "Al-Bit' and Al-Mizr?" I asked Abee Burda, what is al-Bit? He said, "Al-Bit is an alcoholic drink made from honey; and Al-Mizr is an alcoholic drink made from barley." The Prophet said, "All intoxicants are prohibited?

Now the question to the deobandees is who is Imam al-Bukhaaree rahimahullaah referring to in his baab? Jinns of Koofa? Or Shee?ah of Koofa? Such is the fiqh of Ameer-il-Mu?mineen Fil Hadeeth! So dont blame I'laam because centuries before Ibn al-Qayyim rahimahullaah, Imam al-Bukhaaree rahimahullaah pointed this out!

10-09-2007 @ 9:39 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Abu Abd Ar Rahman Abd Al Adheem Ibn Faheem ibn Zia ibn Ma'een (KSA/ Bangalore, India)
Posts: 305
Joined: Nov 2002
Haraam Nabeedh


Book 23, Number 4897:
Jabir b. 'Abdullah al-Ansari reported that Allah's Messenger (Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam) prohibited the (preparation of) Nabeedh by mixing together fresh dates and grapes, and he prohibited the preparation of Nabeedh by mixing the fresh dates and unripe dates together.

Book 23, Number 4898:
Jabir b. Abdullah reported Allah's Messenger (Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam) as saying: Do not mix fresh dates and dry dates, and grapes and fresh dates for preparing Nabeedh.

Book 23, Number 4899:
Jabir b. Abdullah al-Ansari reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) Prohibited the preparation of Nabeedh by mixing grapes and fresh dates. and he forbade the preparation of Nabeedh by mixing unripe dates with fresh dates.

Book 23, Number 4901:
Abu Sa'id reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) prohibited us to mix grapes and dry dates together and unripe dates and dry dates (to prepare Nabeedh.

Book 23, Number 4904:
Abu Qatada, on the authority of his father, reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) having said this: Do not prepare Nabeedh by mixing nearly ripe dates and fresh dates together, and do not prepare Nabeedh by mixing grapes and dates together, but prepare Nabeedh from each (one of them) separately.

Book 23, Number 4906:
Abu Qatada reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Do not prepare Nabeedh by mixing nearly ripe and fresh dates and do not prepare Nabeedh by mixing together fresh dates and grapes, but prepare Nabeedh out of each (one of them) separately. Yahya stated that he had met 'Abdullah b. Abu Qatada and he narrated it on the authority of his father that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said this. This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Yahya b. Abu Kathir through these two chains of transmitters but with a slight variation of words.

[ See Saheeh Of Imaam Muslim rahimahullaah]

10-09-2007 @ 9:53 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Abu Abd Ar Rahman Abd Al Adheem Ibn Faheem ibn Zia ibn Ma'een (KSA/ Bangalore, India)
Posts: 305
Joined: Nov 2002

                             HALAL NABEEDH


Book 23, Number 4971:
Ibn 'Abbas reported that NABEEDH was prepared for Allah's Messenger (Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam) in the beginning of the night and he would drink it in the morning and the following night and the following day and the night after that up to the afternoon. If anything was left out of that he gave it to his servant, or gave orders for it to be poured out.

Book 23, Number 4972:
Ibn 'Abbas reported that NABEEDH was prepared for Allah's Messenger (Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam) in the waterskin, Shu'ba said: It was the night of Monday. He drank it on Monday and on Tuesday up to the afternoon, and If anything was left out of it he gave it to his servant or poured it out.

Book 23, Number 4973:
Ibn Abbas reported that raisins were steeped in water for the Messenger of Allah (Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam) and he would drink it on that day and on the next day and on the following day until the evening of the third day. He would then order it to be drunk by (other people) or to be thrown away.

Book 23, Number 4974:
Ibn Abbas reported that NABEEDH was prepared from raisins for Allah's Messenger (Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam) in the waterskin and he would drink it on that day and on the next day and the day following and when It was the evening of the third day, and he would drink it and give it to (his Companions) and if something was left over, he threw that away.

Book 23, Number 4975:
Yahya Abu 'Umar al-Nakhai reported that some people asked Ibn Abbas about the sale and purchase of wine and its commerce. He asked (them): Are you Muslims? They said, Yes. Thereupon he said: Its sale and purchase and its trade are not permissible. They then asked him about NABEEDH and he said: Allah's Messenger (Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam) went out on a journey and then came back and some persons amongst his Companions prepared NABEEDH for him in green pitcher, hollow stump and gourd. He commanded it to be thrown away, and it was done accordingly. He then ordered them (to prepare it.) in a waterskin and it was prepared in that by steeping raisins in water, and it was prepared in the night. In the morning he drank out of that and on that day and then the next night, and then on the next day until the evening. He drank and gave others to drink. When it was morning (of the third night) he commanded what was left of that to be thrown away.

Book 23, Number 4976:
Thumama (i.e. Ibn Hazn al-Qushairi) reported: I met 'A'isha and asked her about NABEEDH (that was served to the Holy Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam). 'A'isha called an Abyssinian maid (servant) and said: Ask her (about it) for it was he, who prepared the NABEEDH for the Messenger of Allah (Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam). The Abyssinian (maid-servant) said: I prepared NABEEDH for him in a waterskin in the night and tied its mouth and then suspended it; and when it was morning he (the Holy Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam) drank from it.

Book 23, Number 4977:
'A'isha reported: We prepared NABEEDH for Allah's Messenger ( ) in a waterskin, the upper part of which was tied and it (the waterskin) had a hole (in its lower part). We prepared the NABEEDH in the morning and he drank it in the evening and we prepared the NABEEDH in the night, and he would drink it in the morning.

Book 23, Number 4978:
Sahl b. Sa'd reported that Abu Usaid al-Sa'idi invited Allah's Messenger (Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam) to his wedding feast, and his wife had been serving them on that day while yet a bride. Sahl said ' Do you know what she served as a drink to Allah's Messenger (Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam)? She steeped the dates in water during the night in a big bowl, and when he (the Holy Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam) had eaten food she served him this drink.

Book 23, Number 4979:
Sahl reported that Abu Usaid al-Sa'idi came to Allah's Messenger (Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam); the rest of the hadith is the same, but he did not mention this: when he had eaten (the food) she gave him this to drink".

Book 23, Number 4980:
Sahl b. Sa'd reported (this hadith through another chain of transmitters) and he said (these words): "In a big bowl of stone, and when Allah's Messenger (Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam) had taken the food, she drenched the dates and served (this) especially to him."

10-09-2007 @ 10:40 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Abu Abd Ar Rahman Abd Al Adheem Ibn Faheem ibn Zia ibn Ma'een (KSA/ Bangalore, India)
Posts: 305
Joined: Nov 2002
Hanafee Fuqahaa Making Intoxicating Nabeedh permissible for Wudhoo ? Wudhoo with Wine!!

Evidence 1

[Fataawa A?lamgeeri Volume 1 Page 31, Kitaab at-Thahaarah ? New Edition ]

If the nabeedh is gently cooked, it is (still) permissible for making wudhoo, even if it becomes sweet or intoxicating and this is most right (of the views). Such is how it is cited by Aynee in Sharh of Hidaayah?..

Evidence 2

[Thabayyanal Haqaaiq Sharh Kanz 1/160]

If the nabeedh is gently cooked, it is (still) permissible for making wudhoo, even if it becomes sweet or intoxicating and he (the author) said, this is most right (of the views of hanafee fuqahaa). ?..

And the author of hidaayah (a prime hanafee book of fiqh) said, if there is a change (in state of nabeedh) due to fire, so long as it is sweet, in it there is ikhthilaaf (amongst the hanafee fuqahaa); if it becomes strong, then with Abee Haneefah it is permissible because it is permissible with him to drink it.

Evidence 3

ǡ : .

[Thuhfathul Fuqahaa 1/69].

And when it (nabeedh) is cooked upon a gentle flame and if it is thin, it is mentioned in the book from al-Karkhee  who said:
It is permissible for wudhoo, whether it is sweet or intoxicating.

25-09-2007 @ 6:36 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Abu Abd Ar Rahman Abd Al Adheem Ibn Faheem ibn Zia ibn Ma'een (KSA/ Bangalore, India)
Posts: 305
Joined: Nov 2002

Evidence - 4

Wudhoo permissible with grapevine

[Inaayah Sharh Hidaayah Juz 1 Page 91

Evidence ? 5

Hanafee Tafseer Of Nabeedh

: :

So there is a difference of opinion among the hanafee fuqahaa as to what is nabeedh-at-Tamr.


If the nabeedh is mildly cooked and then turns sweet or acrid then there is ikhthilaaf (difference of opinion amongst hanafee fuqahaa), and if it is thick, strong emitting froth, Quddooree mentioned in his Sharh of Karkhee (big hanafee Imam) that there is ikhthilaaf between Karkhee and Abee Taahir ad-Dabbaas and upon the statement of Karkhee (such liquid) is permissible (for making wudhoo)

[Bidaai as-Sanaai Wa Tarteeb ash Sharaa?ee Juz 1 Page 68 Baab Bayaan Muddathul Masah]

Karkhee Is One Of Hanafee Imaams


Both Abul Hasan al-Karkhee & Abee Bakr ar-Raazee are from the Kibaar As`haab Of Abee Haneefah rahimahumullaah

[See Tafseer Of Ibn Katheer 1/177]

Evidence ? 6

: : : { :

[ And he goes on to defend the permissibility of making wudhoo with Nabeedh?.]

[Sharh Ma?aanee al-Aathaar  1/154]

Evidence ? 7


This proves that when there is water, Nabeedh is not permissible and they agree that Nabeedh is NOT water. Its only permissible when there is no water

So calling Nabeedh as ?water used to soak dates? is sheer ignorance.
        [ Sharh Ma?aanee al-Aathaar  1/157]

Evidence ? 8

[See Jaami Sagheer Of Muhammad Ibn Hasan ash-Shaybaanee rahimahullaah]

Evidence ? 9

{ } ?

So Imam Muhammad rahimahullaah made a jam` i.e. to make tayammum and wudhoo with nabeedh


[Al Mabsooth Baab al Wudhu wal Ghusl 1/254]

Evidence ? 10


[Bayaan as-Sanaai Wa Tarteeb ash Sharaa?ee  1/63 Baab Bayaan Muddathul Masah]

Evidence ? 11

( )

[Durur Haakim Sharh Ghururul Haakim  1/111]

Evidence ? 12

( : )

[Durr Mukhtaar 2/27]

Evidence ? 13

So it is permissible to make wudhoo with Imam Abee Haneefah rahimahullaah even if the nabeedh is strong, intoxicating because with Imam Abu Haneefah it is permissible to drink.


No one is denying Muhammad rahimahullah has rendered it impermissible. But what needs to agreed is that there is huge difference of opinion amongst the hanafees themselves.

[Inaayah Sharh Hidaayah 1/177]

Evidence ? 14

Then Why Has Imam Muhammad rahimahullaah Criticized Abee Yousuf rahimahullaah?

: . : . .

Imam Abee Yousuf rahimahullah said: Make Tayammum and do not make wudhoo (with nabeedh) and he narrated upon Abee Haneefah and Shaf?ee rahimahullah said that the aayah of Tayammum be acted upon because it is stronger or it abrogates (the da?eef hadeeth) as it is revealed in Madeenah as for (hadeeth of) Layatul Jinn it is Makkee.
(But) Imam Muhammad rahimahullah said: Make wudhoo (with nabeedh) and then make tayammum (and the claim of) TAAREEKH IS JAHAALAH!!!.....

Evidence ? 15


[Bayaan as-Sanaai Wa Tarteeb sh Sharaa?ee Juz 1 Page 32, Baab Bayaan Muddathul Masah]

Conclusion:- I say, this proves what Imam Ibn al-Qayyim rahimahullaah said in I?laam about the hanafeeyah is the truth and there are very large number of evidences in various books of fiqh hanafee. This demonstrates the ignorance of those who claim that Ibn al-Qayyim has distorted or falsely accused or falsely attributed to hanafee fiqh something they don?t have?.

15-02-2008 @ 7:09 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Abu Abd Ar Rahman Abd Al Adheem Ibn Faheem ibn Zia ibn Ma'een (KSA/ Bangalore, India)
Posts: 305
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Attached FileJuwainee.gif (248 Kbytes)

15-02-2008 @ 10:15 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Abu Abd Ar Rahman Abd Al Adheem Ibn Faheem ibn Zia ibn Ma'een (KSA/ Bangalore, India)
Posts: 305
Joined: Nov 2002

Attached are the words of al-Ghazaalee from his famous book Al-Mankhool Fee Ilm-al-Usool. Al-Juwainee commented above upon these words.

Attached FileGhazaalee.gif (143 Kbytes)

19-02-2008 @ 1:11 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Abu Abd Ar Rahman Abd Al Adheem Ibn Faheem ibn Zia ibn Ma'een (KSA/ Bangalore, India)
Posts: 305
Joined: Nov 2002
Al-Haafidh Ibn Hajar On The Impermissibility Of Making Wudhoo With Nabeedh-ut-Tamr

It is impermissible to make wudhu with Nabeedh ولا المسكر هو من عطف العام على الخاص أو المراد بالنبيذ ما لم يبلغ حد الإسكار قوله وكرهه الحسن أي البصريHasan Al Basree rahimahullah hated it  روى بن أبي شيبة وعبد الرزاق من طريقين عنه قال لا توضأ بنبيذ وروى أبو عبيد من طريق أخرى عنه أنه لا بأس به فعلى هذا فكراهته عنده على التنزيه قوله وأبو العاليةAbul Aaliyah rahimahullah hated it روى أبو داود وأبو عبيد من طريق أبي خلدة قال سألت أبا العالية عن رجل أصابته جنابة وليس عنده ماء يغتسل به قال لا وفي رواية أبي عبيد فكرهه قوله وقال عطاء هو بن أبي رباح روى أبو داود أيضا من طريق بن جريج عنه أنه كره الوضوء بالنبيذ واللبن Ataa Ibn Abee Rabaah said: I hate to make wudhu with nabeedh or laban(milk/yogurt)  وقال أن التيمم أحب إلي منه وذهب الأوزاعي الى جواز الوضوء بالانبذة كلها وهو قول عكرمة مولىابن عباس وروى عن علي وابن عباس ولم يصح عنهما وقيده أبو حنيفة في المشهور عنه بنبيذ التمر واشترط أن لا يكون بحضرة ماء وأن يكون خارج المصر أو القرية وخالفه صاحباه فقال محمد يجمع بينه وبين التيمم قيل ايجابا وقيل استحبابا وهو قول إسحاق


وقال أبو يوسف بقول الجمهور لا يتوضأ به يحال واختاره الطحاوي وذكر قاضيخان أن أبا حنيفة رجع إلى هذا القول

And Aboo Yousuf said that the jumhoor (of the scholars) did not permit wudhu with it(nabeedh) and Tahaawee adopted as reported by Qadee Khan that Abee Haneefah changed his opinion to this qawl (meaning the qawl of Abee Yousuf)

لكن في المقيد من كتبهم إذا ألقى في الماء تمرات فحلا ولم يزل عنه اسم الماء جاز الوضوء به بلا خلاف يعني عندهم واستدلوا بحديث بن مسعود حيث قال له النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ليلة الجن ما في ادواتك قال نبيذ قال ثمرة طيبة وماء طهور رواه أبو داود والترمذي وزاد فتوضأ به وهذا الحديث اطبق علماء السلف على تضعيفه

Ibn Hajar cleary says that The Ulamaa from the Salaf agree with the weakness of this hadeeth ( Meaning, the hadeeth of laylathul-jinn being daeef upon which Abu Haneefah rahimahullaah initially relied upon).

وقيل على تقدير صحته أنه منسوخ لأن ذلك كان بمكة
This incident occurred in Makkah
ونزول قوله تعالى فلم تجدوا ماء فتيمموا إنما كان بالمدينة بلا خلاف
But this aayah was revealed in Madeenah and there is no dispute in this matter
أو هو محمول على ماء ألقيت فيه تمرات يابسة لم تغير له وصفا وإنما كانوا يصنعون ذلك لأن غالب مياههم لم تكن حلوة

[ See Fath under the hadeeth mentioned by Bukhaaree rahimahullaah]

Question: So if Abu Haneefah recanted 1300 yrs back? Thahaawee confirmed!, Qaadee Khan confirmed it! Then why are the deobandee muqallids persisting that his hadeeth is saheeh? Following the footsteps of their muqallid imaams in the past permitting wudhoo with nabeedh?

Hence, you can see why Ibn al-Qayyim rahimahullaah criticized these muqallids in his I'laam!!!

One of the greatest benefit from this incident is the fact that Abee Yousuf Yaakoob rahimahullaah followed the advice of Abu Haneefah rahimahullaah NOT TO BLIND FOLLOW!! And Abu Haneefah rahimahullaah practically implemented his famous qawl ' Saheeh hadeeth is my madh`hab '.

But the bigoted partisans follow their desires and refuge of Allaah is sought from this type of taqleed!

20-02-2008 @ 9:32 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Abu Abd Ar Rahman Abd Al Adheem Ibn Faheem ibn Zia ibn Ma'een (KSA/ Bangalore, India)
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Imam Ahl-il-Hadeeth Abd-ar-Rahmaan al-Mubaarakfooree On Nabeedh

[Refer Thuhfathul Ahwadhee sharh of Thirmidhee Volume 1 page 299]

بَاب مَا جَاءَ فِي الْوُضُوءِ بِالنَّبِيذِ

حَدَّثَنَا هَنَّادٌ حَدَّثَنَا شَرِيكٌ عَنْ أَبِي فَزَارَةَ عَنْ أَبِي زَيْدٍ عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ مَسْعُودٍ قَالَ {سَأَلَنِي النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم مَا فِي إِدَاوَتِكَ فَقُلْتُ نَبِيذٌ فَقَالَ تَمْرَةٌ طَيِّبَةٌ وَمَاءٌ طَهُورٌ قَالَ فَتَوَضَّأَ مِنْهُ}( ) قَالَ أَبُو عِيسَى وَإِنَّمَا رُوِيَ هَذَا الْحَدِيثُ عَنْ أَبِي زَيْدٍ عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ عَنْ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَأَبُو زَيْدٍ رَجُلٌ مَجْهُولٌ عِنْدَ أَهْلِ الْحَدِيثِ And Abu Zayd is a man who is majhool with the Ahl-il-Hadeeth  لَا تُعْرَفُ لَهُ رِوَايَةٌ غَيْرُ هَذَا الْحَدِيثِAnd there is not known from him a riwaayah other than this hadeeth وَقَدْ رَأَى بَعْضُ أَهْلِ الْعِلْمِ الْوُضُوءَ بِالنَّبِيذِ مِنْهُمْ سُفْيَانُ الثَّوْرِيُّ وَغَيْرُهُ it has been narrated from some of the people of knowledge that it is permissible to make wudhu with nabeedh and from them is Sufyaan ath-Thawree and othersوَقَالَ بَعْضُ أَهْلِ الْعِلْمِ لَا يُتَوَضَّأُ بِالنَّبِيذِ وَهُوَ قَوْلُ الشَّافِعِيِّ وَأَحْمَدَ وَإِسْحَقَAnd some of the ahl-al-Ilm said it is not permissible to make wudhu with nabeedh and from them are the statements of Shafee, Ahmed and Ishaaq (meaning Ibn Rahawaih) وَقَالَ إِسْحَقُ إِنْ ابْتُلِيَ رَجُلٌ بِهَذَا فَتَوَضَّأَ بِالنَّبِيذِ وَتَيَمَّمَ أَحَبُّ إِلَيَّ قَالَ أَبُو عِيسَى وَقَوْلُ مَنْ يَقُولُ لَا يُتَوَضَّأُ بِالنَّبِيذِ أَقْرَبُ إِلَى الْكِتَابِ وَأَشْبَهُ لِأَنَّ اللَّهَ تَعَالَى قَالَ { يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ إِذَا قُمْتُمْ إِلَى الصَّلاةِ فاغْسِلُواْ وُجُوهَكُمْ وَأَيْدِيَكُمْ إِلَى الْمَرَافِقِ وَامْسَحُواْ بِرُؤُوسِكُمْ وَأَرْجُلَكُمْ إِلَى الْكَعْبَينِ وَإِن كُنتُمْ جُنُبًا فَاطَّهَّرُواْ وَإِن كُنتُم مَّرْضَى أَوْ عَلَى سَفَرٍ أَوْ جَاء أَحَدٌ مَّنكُم مِّنَ الْغَائِطِ أَوْ لاَمَسْتُمُ النِّسَاء فَلَمْ تَجِدُواْ مَاء فَتَيَمَّمُواْ صَعِيدًا طَيِّبًا فَامْسَحُواْ بِوُجُوهِكُمْ وَأَيْدِيكُم مِّنْهُ مَا يُرِيدُ اللّهُ لِيَجْعَلَ عَلَيْكُم مِّنْ حَرَجٍ وَلَـكِن يُرِيدُ لِيُطَهَّرَكُمْ وَلِيُتِمَّ نِعْمَتَهُ عَلَيْكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَشْكُرُونَ}

O you who believe! When you intend to offer As-Salt (the prayer), wash your faces and your hands (forearms) up to the elbows, rub (by passing wet hands over) your heads, and (wash) your feet up to ankles. If you are in a state of Janba (i.e. had a sexual discharge), purify yourself (bathe your whole body). But if you are ill or on a journey or any of you comes from answering the call of nature, or you have been in contact with women (i.e. sexual intercourse) and you find no water, then perform Tayammum with clean earth and rub therewith your faces and hands. Allh does not want to place you in difficulty, but He wants to purify you, and to complete His Favour on you that you may be thankful.

(بَابُ الْوُضُوءِ بِالنَّبِيذِ ) بِفَتْحِ النُّونِ وَكَسْرِ الْبَاءِ مَا يُعْمَلُ مِنَ الْأَشْرِبَةِ مِنَ التَّمْرِ وَالزَّبِيبِ وَالْعَسَلِ وَالْحِنْطَةِ وَالشَّعِيرِ. نَبَذْتُ التَّمْرَ وَالْعِنَبَ إِذَا تَرَكْتُ عَلَيْهِ الْمَاءَ لِيَصِيرَ نَبِيذًا وَأَنْبَذْتُهُ اتَّخَذْتُهُ نَبِيذًا سَوَاءٌ كَانَ مُسْكِرًا أَمْ لَا ، وَيُقَالُ لِلْخَمْرِ الْمُعْتَصَرِ مِنَ الْعِنَبِ نَبِيذٌ كَمَا يُقَالُ لِلنَّبِيذِ خَمْرٌ قَالَهُ ابْنُ الْأَثِيرِ فِي النِّهَايَةِ.

قَوْلُهُ: ( نَا شَرِيكٌ ) هُوَ شَرِيكُ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ النَّخَعِيُّ الْكُوفِيُّ ( عَنْ أَبِي فَزَارَةَ ) اسْمُهُ رَاشِدُ بْنُ كَيْسَانَ الْكُوفِيُّ، ثِقَةٌ، مِنَ الْخَامِسَةِ ( عَنْ أَبِي زَيْدٍ ) مَجْهُولٌ لَيْسَ يُدْرَى مَنْ هُوَ وَلَا يُعْرَفُ أَبُوهُ وَلَا بَلَدُهُ.

قَوْلُهُ: ( سَأَلَنِي النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم مَا فِي إِدَاوَتِكَ؟ ) بِكَسْرِ الْهَمْزَةِ إِنَاءٌ صَغِيرٌ مِنْ جِلْدٍ يُتَّخَذُ لِلْمَاءِ وَفِي رِوَايَةِ أَبِي دَاوُدَ {أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ لَهُ لَيْلَةَ الْجِنِّThis is one of the narration Imam Abee Haneefah rahimahullah relied upon) " مَا فِي إِدَاوَتِكَ؟} ".

( فَقَالَ ) أَيْ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم ( {تَمْرَةٌ طَيِّبَةٌ وَمَاءٌ طَهُورٌ}( ) ) بِفَتْحِ الطَّاءِ أَيْ النَّبِيذِ لَيْسَ إِلَّا تَمْرَةٌ وَهِيَ طَيِّبَةٌ وَمَاءٌ وَهُوَ طَهُورٌ فَلَيْسَ فِيهِ مَا يَمْنَعُ التَّوَضُّؤَ.

قَوْلُهُ: ( وَإِنَّمَا رُوِيَ هَذَا الْحَدِيثُ عَنْ أَبِي زَيْدٍ عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَأَبُو زَيْدٍ رَجُلٌ مَجْهُولٌ عِنْدَ أَهْلِ الْحَدِيثِ ) قَالَ الْحَافِظُ الزَّيْلَعِيُّ فِي نَصْبِ الرَّايَةِAl hafidh az-Zaylaaee said: قَالَ ابْنُ حِبَّانَ فِي كِتَابِ الضُّعَفَاءِIbn Hibban said in Kitab-adh-Dhuafaa: أَبُو زَيْدٍ شَيْخٌ يَرْوِي عَنِ ابْنِ مَسْعُودٍ لَيْسَ يُدْرَى مَنْ هُوَ وَلَا أَبُوهُ وَلَا بَلَدُهُ، وَمَنْ كَانَ بِهَذَا النَّعْتِ ثُمَّ لَمْ يَرْوِ إِلَّا خَبَرًا وَاحِدًا خَالَفَ فِيهِ الْكِتَابَ وَالسُّنَّةَ وَالْإِجْمَاعَ وَالْقِيَاسَ اسْتَحَقَّ مُجَانَبَةَ مَا رَوَاهُ. انْتَهَى. Allahu Akbar! Such is this majhool and this opposes Quran, Sunnah, Ijmaa and Qiyaas.
وَقَالَ ابْنُ أَبِي حَاتِمٍ فِي كِتَابِهِ الْعِلَلِAnd Ibn Abee Haathim said in his book of Ilal(hidden cause of weakness):

سَمِعْتُ أَبَا زُرْعَةَI heard Abu Zurah saying (see Mountains of Knowledge for brief biography of Abee Zurah ar-Raazee) يَقُولُ حَدِيثُ أَبِي فَزَارَةَ بِالنَّبِيذِ لَيْسَ بِصَحِيحٍ، وَأَبُو زَيْدٍ مَجْهُولٌ, وَذَكَرَ ابْنُ عَدِيٍّ عَنِ الْبُخَارِيِّ قَالَ: أَبُو زَيْدٍ الَّذِي رَوَى حَدِيثَ ابْنِ مَسْعُودٍ فِي الْوُضُوءِ بِالنَّبِيذِ مَجْهُولٌ لَا يُعْرَفُ بِصُحْبَةِ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ وَلَا يَصِحُّ هَذَا الْحَدِيثُ عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَهُوَ خِلَافُ الْقُرْآنِ. انْتَهَى.

As ibn Adiy narrates from Imam Bukhaaree rahimahullah that he is majhool and this opposes the Quraan and its not established to be saheeh from the Messenger of Allaah Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam and its not known he had suhbah with Abdullah ibn Masood radhiAllahu anhu


قَالَ الْقَارِي فِي الْمِرْقَاةِ: قَالَ السَّيِّدُ جَمَالٌ: أَجْمَعَ الْمُحَدِّثُونَ عَلَى أَنَّ هَذَا الْحَدِيثَ ضَعِيفٌ. انْتَهَى.

Mullah Alee al-Qaaree said in Mirqaat: Sayyid Jamaal said: The Muhadditheen have united upon this hadeeth being dha'eef..end of qaaree's words.


وَقَالَ الْحَافِظُ فِي فَتْحِ الْبَارِي: هَذَا الْحَدِيثُ أَطْبَقَ عُلَمَاءُ السَّلَفِ عَلَى تَضْعِيفِهِ. انْتَهَى.

Hafidh Ibn Hajar rahimahullah said in Fathul-Baaree     The scholars of salaf agreed that it is weak


وَقَالَ الطَّحَاوِيُّ فِي مَعَانِي الْآثَارِ: إِنَّ حَدِيثَ ابْنِ مَسْعُودٍ رُوِيَ مِنْ طُرُقٍ لَا تَقُومُ بِمِثْلِهَا حُجَّةٌ. انْتَهَى. وَالْحَدِيثُ أَخْرَجَهُ أَبُو دَاوُدَ وَابْنُ مَاجَهْ.

Imam Thahawee al-hanafee rahimahullah said in Maani Al Aathar : This hadeeth of ibn Masood is reported through a way whose kind is not hujjah. End. And this hadeeth has been collected by Abu Daawood and Ibn Maajah.

قَوْلُهُ: ( وَقَدْ رَأَى بَعْضُ أَهْلِ الْعِلْمِ الْوُضُوءَ بِالنَّبِيذِ مِنْهُمْ سُفْيَانُ وَغَيْرُهُ ) وَمِنْهُمْ أَبُو حَنِيفَةَ.

It is reported from some of the ahl-ul-ilm regarding the (permissibility of making) wudhoo with nabeedh and from them is Sufyaan (meaning ath-Thawree) and others. And from them is Abee Haneefah rahimahullah.

قَالَ فِي شَرْحِ الْوِقَايَةِ: فَإِنْ عَدِمَ الْمَاءُ إِلَّا نَبِيذَ التَّمْرِ قَالَ أَبُو حَنِيفَةَ بِالْوُضُوءِ بِهِ فَقَطْ، وَأَبُو يُوسُفَ بِالتَّيَمُّمِ فَحَسْبُ، وَمُحَمَّدٌ بِهِمَا. انْتَهَى

In Sharh Wiqayah (a hanafee fiqh book): If one does not find water except nabeedh-ut-Tamr, Abu Haneefa said to perform wudhoo with it only ( Nabeedh), Abu Yousuf (said) only make Tayammum, and Muhammad perform wudhoo with both (Wudhu with Nabeedh and Tayammum both)

. وَاسْتَدَلَّ لَهُمْ بِحَدِيثِ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ مَسْ

22-02-2008 @ 11:40 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Abu Abd Ar Rahman Abd Al Adheem Ibn Faheem ibn Zia ibn Ma'een (KSA/ Bangalore, India)
Posts: 305
Joined: Nov 2002

Debate between AbdAllaah Bin Mubarak rahimahullaah and Muqallideen (Deobandee Forefathers) Of Koofa

قال عبد الله بن المبارك: كنت بالكوفة فناظروني في النبيذ المختلف فيه، فقلت لهم: تعالَوْا فليحتج المحتج منكم عمن شاء من أصحاب النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم بالرخصة، فإن لم يبين الرد عليه عن ذلك الرجل بسند صحت عنه، فاحتجوا فما جاءوا عن أحد برخصة إلا جئناهم بسند، فلم يبق في يد أحد منهم إلا عبد الله ابن مسعود، وليس احتجاجهم عنه في شدة النبيذ بشيء يصح عنه، إنما يصح عنه أنه لم ينتبذ له في الجرِّ الأخضر، قال ابن المبارك فقلت للمحتج عنه في الرخصة يا أحمق، عُدَّ أن ابن مسعود لو كان هاهنا جالساً فقال هو لك حلال، وما وصفنا عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم وأصحابه في الشدة كان ينبغي لك أن تحذر وتخشى فقال قائل: يا أبا عبد الرحمن فالنخعي والشعبي.وسَمَّى عدة معهما_كانوا يشربون حرام؟فقلت لهم: دعوا عند المناظرة تسمية الرجال، فربّ رجل في الإسلام مناقبه كذا وكذا، وعسى أن تكون منه زلة، أفيجوز لأحد أن يحتج بها؟فإن أبيتم فما قولكم في عطاء وطاوس وجابر بن زيد وسعيد بن جبير وعكرمة؟قالوا كانوا خياراً، قلت فما قولكم في الدرهم بالدرهمين يداً بيد؟قالوا حرام، فقلت: إن هؤلاء رأوه حلالاً، أفماتوا وهم يأكلون الحرام؟فبهتوا وانقطعت حجتهم

[ See Ilaam Volume 4]

Ibn al-Qayyim rahimahullaah mentions in Ilaam the following:

Summary: Abdullaah Ibn Mubarak rahimahullaah said: I was (stationed in) Koofa and I saw that (the people of Koofah) differed with regards to nabeedh ( they only considered the wine made from grapes to be haram while the wine made from Jowar, Barley, Wheat and Honey were considered to be halal and whoever drank it even if he became intoxicated, there would not be any hadd upon him). So I debated with them (upon this matter), and said, bring all of your evidences whatsoever (those from amongst you who are capable of), of being permissible from the companions of the Messenger of Allaah Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam .

They did not respond with any clear (authentic) evidence but presented me with incorrect isnaad to which I rebutted with saheeh isnaad that which has come ( from the Companions and the Messenger of Allaah Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam) about (nabeedh) being haraam and its impermissibility; consequently they were defeated and could not respond.

And there did not remain any evidence in their arsenal except the (qawl of ) Abdullaah Ibn Masood (radhiAllaahu Anhu) that they held onto and argued with. (However), there is nothing authentically reported from him concerning strong intoxicating nabeedh, but what is saheeh from him is that nabeedh was not prepared for him in the green pitcher.

Ibn al-Mubaarak said, I said (to them), you argue with me with rukhsa (permission) from him O (muqallid) pudding heads! Imagine for instance, Abdullaah Ibn Mas`ood is right here sitting (in our midst) and saying this is halaal and on the other hand there are  (several of the ahadeeth) from the Messenger of Allaah Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam and (scores of) his Companions of its utmost impermissibility and severe frightening (threats) & dreading (punishments for the one who drinks it).then one amongst them said, O Abaa Abdar-Rahmaan! Nakhaee ( meaning Ibraaheem an-Nakhaee) and Shabee and (he began to name) several others.did they all drank HARAAM?

I said to them: Just by naming the individuals in the debate (Munaazirah) does not justify your claims; having high stature in islam does not absolve (these individuals you have named) of making any errors. How can one rely upon their statements? But rather evidence has to be produced for their statements. If they have said the like of what you are saying, then we have the same objection upon them.

And if you are not satisfied with this, then what is your opinion regarding Ataa (meaning Abee Rabaah), Taawoos,  Jaabir bin Zayd ,Sayeed Ibn Jubayr and Ikrimah? They responded: All (of those whom you have mentioned) are noble personalities of high stature and repute. What is your opinion about exchanging a dirham for two dirhams net for net? They said: It is HARAAM!

(Ibn Mubarak said): All of these (mentioned above) reported to have declared it HALAAL! So they died whilst they were eating HARAAM? They were defeated and were left with no arguments.

02-03-2008 @ 11:33 AM    Notify Admin about this post
Abu Abd Ar Rahman Abd Al Adheem Ibn Faheem ibn Zia ibn Ma'een (KSA/ Bangalore, India)
Posts: 305
Joined: Nov 2002

Radd Of Mubarakpuree upon  Kashmeeree-Ice Snow-(Deo)-bandee & Saharanpuree

تَنْبِيهٌ: قَالَ صَاحِبُ الْعَرْفِ الشَّذِيِّ: وَأَمَّا قَوْلُ: إِنَّهُ يَلْزَمُ الزِّيَادَةُ عَلَى الْقَاطِعِ بِخَبَرِ الْوَاحِدِ فَالْجَوَابُ أَنَّهُ وَإِنْ كَانَ الْمَاءُ الْمُنَبَّذُ مُقَيَّدًا فِي بَادِئِ الرَّأْيِ إِلَّا أَنَّ الْعَرَبَ يَسْتَعْمِلُونَ النَّبِيذَ مَوْضِعَ الْمَاءِ الْمُطْلَقِ فَلَمْ يَكُنْ عَلَى طَرِيقِ التَّفَكُّهِ بَلْ يَكُونُ مِثْلَ الْمَاءِ الْمَخْلُوطِ بِالثَّلْجِ الْمُسْتَعْمَلِ فِي زَمَانِنَا فَإِنَّهُ لَا يَقُولُ أَحَدٌ بِأَنَّهُ مَاءٌ مُقَيَّدٌ. انْتَهَى.

The Author of Urf-ash-Shazee Sharh of Bukhaaree (referring to Anwar Shah Kashmeeree deobandee): As for the qawl: Verily! It necessitates Ziyaadah upon that which is absolutely certain (Ilm Yaqeenee) with Khabr al-Waahid (There is not even a Saheeh Khabr al-Waahid for nabeedh!) then the response (to it) is that, although the water is steeped (with dates) and limitedly modified ( not steeped enough to make it viscous or thick or intoxicating), except that the Arabs used (this kind of) nabeedh instead of pure (absolute) water it (nabeedh) is like a mixture of water with ice as utilized in our times while no one said that it (nabeedh) is water modified        ( Muqayyad meaning here, Water being held with another element, substance or material in chemical or physical union).

[Note:- So this show how Anwar Shah Kashmeeree made his vain attempts to whisk off the matter by neo-sharh of nabeedh in order to PROTECT the monument of taqleed from crumbling in its own court!!!]

قُلْتُ: هَذَا الْجَوَابُ وَاهٍ جِدًّا فَإِنَّ النَّبِيذَ لَوْ كَانَ مِثْلَ الْمَاءِ الْمَخْلُوطِ بِالثَّلْجِ لَمْ يَقَعْ الِاخْتِلَافُ فِي جَوَازِ التَّوَضُّؤِ بِهِ عِنْدَ عَدَمِ الْمَاءِ بَلْ يَجُوزُ الْوُضُوءُ بِهِ عِنْدَ وُجُودِ الْمَاءِ أَيْضًا كَمَا يَجُوزُ الْوُضُوءُ بِالْمَاءِ الْمَخْلُوطِ بِالثَّلْجِ عِنْدَ وُجُودِ الْمَاءِ الْخَالِصِ بِالِاتِّفَاقِ

I( Imam Abd-ar-Rahmaan) say : This answer is very very flimsy & unconvincying : If Nabeedh were to be like mixture of ice and water, there wouldnt have taken place any ikhthilaaf in the lawfulness  of performing wudhoo with it (nabeedh) but rather it would have been lawful to make wudhoo with it (nabeedh), even in the presence of water also, just like it is permissible to make wudhoo with the mixture of water and ice (even when) pure water is available unanimously  

وَالْعَجَبُ كُلُّ الْعَجَبِ أَنَّهُ كَيْفَ تَفَوَّهَ بِأَنَّ النَّبِيذَ مِثْلُ الْمَاءِ الْمَخْلُوطِ بِالثَّلْجِ وَمَعْلُومٌ أَنَّ الثَّلْجَ نَوْعٌ مِنْ أَنْوَاعٍ مِنَ الْمِيَاهِ الصِّرْفَةِ، فَالْمَاءُ الْمَخْلُوطُ بِهِ مَاءٌ صِرْفٌ وَأَمَّا النَّبِيذُ فَلَيْسَ بِمَاءٍ صِرْفٍ بَلْ هُوَ مَاءٌ اخْتَلَطَ بِهِ أَجْزَاءُ مَا أُلْقِيَ فِيهِ مِنَ التَّمْرِ وَغَيْرِهِ وَصَارَ طَعْمُهُ حُلْوًا بِحَيْثُ زَالَ عَنْهُ اسْمُ الْمَاءِ, أَلَا تَرَى أَنَّهُ وَقَعَ فِي بَعْضِ الرِّوَايَاتِ {أَنَّهُ صلى الله عليه وسلم سَأَلَ ابْنَ مَسْعُودٍ: هَلْ مَعَكَ مَاءٌ؟ فَقَالَ لَا} . مَعَ أَنَّهُ كَانَ مَعَهُ النَّبِيذُ.

The most strikingly odd from all the weirdest of (his  statements) is that how has he (Kashmeeree) stated that nabeedh is like mixture of water with ice as it is known that ice is a form from the (various solid, liquid, gas) forms of water; it is water mixed with water alone. While as for nabeedh, it is not water alone, but rather it is mixture of water & substances like dates and others so then it tastes sweet; and the name of water is derived from it.  But if you see what took place from the other narrations: {That the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam questioned Ibn Mas`ood: Do you have water? Then he replied No}. (Rather) he had nabeedh with him

[Note:- No wonder Anwar Shah came up with this recipe, as he hails from a place like Kashmeer (snow, ice, water?) ]

Thamaam Faqeeh wa Aamee Nabeedh sey Beygaana
Koi Tho Bathaaye yeh jawaab hai Faqeehaana(ice?)?
Ye Raaz Hum sey Chhupaayaa hai Meer Waaz ney
Key Khud ghaafil hai madh`hab sey hanafee kutub khaana

قَالَ الزَّيْلَعِيُّ فِي نَصْبِ الرَّايَةِ: إِنَّهُ عَلَيْهِ السَّلَامُ قَالَ هَلْ مَعَكَ مَاءٌ؟ قَالَ لَا. فَدَلَّ عَلَى أَنَّ الْمَاءَ اسْتَحَالَ فِي التَّمْرِ حَتَّى سُلِبَ عَنْهُ اسْمُ الْمَاءِ وَإِلَّا لَمَا صَحَّ نَفْيُهُ عَنْهُ. انْتَهَى, وَأَمَّا قَوْلُهُ إِنَّ الْعَرَبَ يَسْتَعْمِلُونَ النَّبِيذَ مَوْضِعَ الْمُطْلَقِ إِلَخْ فَلَا يُجْدِي نَفْعًا فَإِنَّ بِاسْتِعْمَالِهِمْ شَيْئًا غَيْرَ الْمَاءِ مَكَانَ الْمَاءِ الْمُطْلَقِ لَا يَكُونُ ذَلِكَ الشَّيْءُ عِنْدَ الشَّرْعِ مَاءً مُطْلَقًا وَفِي حُكْمِهِ.

Zaylaaee said in Nasb ar-Ra`ayh: The Messenger of Allaah Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam said, is there water in your possession? He said: No. This testifies the fact that the water coalesced within the dates until the name of water was nullified from it otherwise, what benefit would there be in his (Ibn Masoods radhiAllaahu anhu) negation of it. As for his (Frosy Kashmeerees) saying that Arabs used nabeedh in the place of pure water, it is void of any benefit , because using something in the place of pure water does not make this substance pure water or its like then there is nothing whatsoever in the Shar`eeah (or) in its hukm (meaning the ruling for the substance in it being permissible to perform wudhoo).

وَاعْلَمْ أَنَّ هَذَا الْإِشْكَالَ الَّذِي ذَكَرَهُ الْقَاضِي أَبُو بَكْرِ بْنُ الْعَرَبِيِّ عَسِيرٌ جِدًّا عَلَى الْحَنَفِيَّةِ لَا يُمْكِنُ مِنْهُمْ دَفْعُهُ وَلَوْ كَانَ بَعْضُهُمْ لِبَعْضٍ ظَهِيرًا, وَأَمَّا مَا قِيلَ مِنْ أَنَّ حَدِيثَ النَّبِيذِ مَشْهُورٌ يُزَادُ بِمِثْلِهِ عَلَى الْكِتَابِ فَهُوَ مِمَّا لَا يُلْتَفَتُ إِلَيْهِ فَإِنَّ شُرَّاحَ الْهِدَايَةِ قَدْ بَيَّنُوا أَنَّ هَذَا الْحَدِيثَ لَيْسَ مَشْهُورًا بِالشُّهْرَةِ الِاصْطِلَاحِيَّةِ الَّذِي تَجُوزُ بِهِ الزِّيَادَةُ, نَعَمْ لَهُ شُهْرَةٌ عُرْفِيَّةٌ وَلُغَوِيَّةٌ كَمَا ذَكَرَهُ صَاحِبُ السِّعَايَةِ، وَقَالَ الزَّيْلَعِيُّ فِي نَصْبِ الرَّايَةِ: أَمَّا كَوْنُهُ مَشْهُورًا فَلَيْسَ يُرِيدُ الِاصْطِلَاحِيَّ. انْتَهَى.

And know that the elusive uncertainties pointed out by al-Qaadee Abu Bakr ibn al-Arabee are very severely arduous and gruelling upon the ahnaaf (to respond) and it is not possible for them (to respond back) and refute these (questions raised), even though the reality has been clear to some of them (ahnaaf) if not to others (yet those whom its not clear they cant respond back). And as for the saying (of ahnaaf), that this hadeeth of nabeedh is mash`hoor

(Note:- A mash`hoor hadeeth is the one that is narrated by three or more people at every level (of the chain) and this is the least requirement according to HANAFEEYAH's OWN RULES for abrogation of Quraan or a Mutawaathir hadeeth. This Mash`hoor hadeeth is the least standard for ilm yaqeenee so this is the reason why they reject Khabr Waahid even if it be Saheeh but here they have bumbled because the hadeeth in question is dha`eef and they have abrogated the aayah from the Quraan with it; hence the desperate effort to prove that this hadeeth is mash`hoor )

which can abrogate the like of it  then there is no need to pay any heed towards it, because the Shurraah (hanafee explainers) of Hidaayah ( GREAT HANAFEE FIQH BOOK), have distinctly clarified that this hadeeth is not mash`hoor, with the reputation in hadeeth terminology, so that this (type of) ziyaadah be permissible, but rather it is mash`hoor commonly/ linguistically (meaning it is just known amongst the people but in hadeeth terminology it is dha`eef and there is not a single Saheeh hadeeth, and mash`hoor in hadeeth terminology requires 3 or more narrators at every level of the chain). Zaylaaee said in Nasb ar-Ra`ayh: As for it being Mash`hoor then it is not sought to be so in isthilaah (Terminology of hadeeth)end of Zaylaaee Hanafees words.

وَأَمَّا قَوْلُ صَاحِبِ بَذْلِ الْمَجْهُودِ: قَالَ بِهِ جَمَاعَةٌ مِنْ كُبَرَاءِ الصَّحَابَةِ مِنْهُمْ عَلِيٌّ وَابْنُ مَسْعُودٍ وَابْنُ عُمَرَ وَابْنُ عَبَّاسٍ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُمْ فَتَبَيَّنَ أَنَّ الْحَدِيثَ وَرَدَ مَوْرِدَ الشُّهْرَةِ وَالِاسْتِفَاضَةِ حَيْثُ عَمِلَ بِهِ الصَّحَابَةُ وَتَلَقَّوْهُ بِالْقَبُولِ وَمِثْلُهُ مِمَّا يُنْسَخُ بِهِ الْكِتَابُ.

As for saying of the author of Bazlil Majhood (referring to Khaleel Ahmed Saharanpuree he is the one who authored AL-MUHANNAD ALA'L MUFANNAD), that a group of kibaar Sahabah said about it (performing wudhoo with nabeedh being permissible ), among them Ali, ibn Masood, ibn Umar, ibn Abbas, (ridhwanullaahi alaihim ajmaeen) then this distinctly clarifies the high status of this hadeeth (of nabeedh) and its extensiveness where in the Sahaabah have acted upon it hence, by receiving it with due acceptance and the like of this (narration) can abrogate the Quraan.

فَمَبْنِيٌّ عَلَى قِلَّةِ اطِّلَاعِهِ, فَإِنَّهُ لَمْ يَثْبُتْ بِسَنَدٍ صَحِيحٍ عَنْ أَحَدٍ مِنَ الصَّحَابَةِ التَّوَضُّؤُ بِالنَّبِيذِ, قَالَ الْحَافِظُ فِي الدِّرَايَةِ: قَوْلُهُ وَالْحَدِيثُ مَشْهُورٌ عَمِلَ بِهِ الصَّحَابَةُ: أَمَّا الشُّهْرَةُ فَلَيْسَتِ الِاصْطِلَاحِيَّةَ وَإِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ شُهْرَتَهُ بَيْنَ النَّاسِ, وَأَمَّا عَمَلُ الصَّحَابَةِ فَلَمْ يَثْبُتْ عَنْ أَحَدٍ مِنْهُمْ، فَقَدْ أَخْرَجَ الدَّارَقُطْنِيُّ ذَلِكَ مِنْ وَجْهَيْنِ ضَعِيفَيْنِ عَنْ عَلِيٍّ وَمِنْ وَجْهٍ آخَرَ أَضْعَفَ مِنْهُمَا عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ وَمِنْ طَرِيقٍ أُخْرَى عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ مَرْفُوعًا " {إِذَا لَمْ يَجِدْ أَحَدُكُمْ مَاءً وَوَجَدَ النَّبِيذَ فَلْيَتَوَضَّأْ بِهِ} " وَأَخْرَجَهُ مِنْ وَجْهٍ آخَرَ نَحْوَهُ، وَقَالَ الصَّوَابُ مَوْقُوفٌ عَلَى عِكْرِمَةَ، قَالَ الْبَيْهَقِيُّ رَوَاهُ هِقْلٌ وَالْوَلِيدُ عَنِ الْأَوْزَاعِيِّ عَنْ يَحْيَى بْنِ أَبِي كَثِيرٍ عَنْ عِكْرِمَةَ مِنْ قَوْلِهِ وَكَذَا قَالَ شَيْبَانُ وَعَلِيُّ بْنُ الْمُبَارَكِ عَنْ يَحْيَى. انْتَهَى

Abdar-Rahmaan Mubaarakfooree rahimahullah said: Such statements of(Khaleel Ahmed Saharanpuree) are based upon ignorance (lack of information) because this hadeeth is not established to be Saheeh from even a single Sahaabee that they permitted wudhoo with it. Al-Haafidh ibn Hajr said in Diraayah ( meaning ad-Diraayah Thakhreej ahaadeeth al Hidaayah Ibn Hajr made Thakhreej of ahadeeth mentioned in famous hanafee fiqh book called al-Hidaayah and if Allaah Wills, we shall see how many of them have been graded weak!!! ): As for the statement (in al-Hidaayah), The hadeeth (of nabeedh) being Mash`hoor, acted upon by Sahaabah, then the fame of this hadeeth is not isthi`

02-03-2008 @ 5:04 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Abu Abd Ar Rahman Abd Al Adheem Ibn Faheem ibn Zia ibn Ma'een (KSA/ Bangalore, India)
Posts: 305
Joined: Nov 2002
Now Ghusl With Nabeedh

Evidence- I

واختلف مشايخنا في الاغتسال بالنبيذ عند أبي حنيفة رحمه الله الأصح أنه يجوز . كذا في شرح المبسوط وهكذا في الكافي وفي الفتاوى العتابية وهو الصحيح

[See Alamgeeri Volume 1 Page 31 New Edition ]

Our Mashaaikh have differed with regards to making ghusl with nabeedh. With Abee Haneefah rahimahullaah and this (qawl) is most correct is that it is permissible. Thus it is present in Sharh of al-Mabsooth (mother book of hanafee fiqh) and similarly it is present in al-Kaafee and in Fatawa al-Uthaabiyah and this is correct.

And this is no ordinary book! The book derives its name from the Moughal Emperor Aurangzeb A'lamgeer who summoned 1000's of hanafee fuqahaa to forgather the various fatawas of hanafee madh`hab. And strangely this is was inscribed in the very first volume!!

Evidence- II

واختلف مشايخنا رحمهم الله تعالى في الاغتسال بنبيذ التمر عند أبى حنيفة رحمه الله تعالى فمنهم من لم يجوزه لان الاثر في الوضوء خاصة والاصح أنه يجوز لان المخصوص من القياس بالنص يلحق به ما في معناه من كل وجه

[ Al-Mabsooth Volume 1 Page 89]

Al-Mabsooth is the mother book of hanafees.

روى الإمام محمد بن الحسن الشيباني أقوال أبي حنيفة في ست كتب تسمى عند الحنفية ظاهر الرواية وهي : الجامع الكبيرـ الجامع الصغيرـ السير الكبيرـ السير الصغيرـ المبسوط ـ والزيادات

Narrated by Imam Muhammad bin Hasan ash-Shaybaanee (student of Abee Haneefah rahimahullaah): The Aqwaal of Abee Haneefah are (compiled) in six books with the hanafeeyah..Jaami al-Kabeer, Jaami as-Sagheer, As-Seerah al-Kabeer, as-Seerah as-Sagheer, Al-Mabsooth and Az-Ziyaadaath.

Evidence- III

واختلف المشايخ ف جواز الاغتسال بنبيذ التمر على أصل أبى حنيفة فقال بعضهم لا يجوز لان الجواز وز بالنص وأنه ورد في الوضوء دون الاغتسال فيقتصر على مورد النص وَقَالَ بَعْضُهُمْ : يَجُوزُ

[Al-Bidaai Volume 1 Page 21]

So when there is a difference of opinion amongst the fuqahaa of ahnaaf (mind you they are 1000s of them) about GHUSL with Nabeedh-at-Tamr then why worry about Wudhoo with Nabeedh-ut-Tamr?

So you say: Salafees pick and choose whatever suits them and we stick to ONE IMAAM!!! So the deception has been unveiled. Hence they are muqallid of several people from the past and present and as for the salafees then they are Muqallid of just one man, Muhammad ibn Abdillaah Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam.

02-03-2008 @ 9:57 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Abu Abd Ar Rahman Abd Al Adheem Ibn Faheem ibn Zia ibn Ma'een (KSA/ Bangalore, India)
Posts: 305
Joined: Nov 2002
Hanafee Claim There Is Ijmaa Upon Performing Wudhoo With Other Liquids Being Impermissible

Chapter: Examples Of Contradictions Amongst The Qiyaasiyyeen

In this chapter and various chapters succeeding and preceding it, Ibn al-Qayyim rahimahullaah criticizes the people of qiyaas, those who execute qiyaas while rejecting clear ahaadeeth that are authentic. He cites various evidences as to how the people of qiyaas themselves have rattling contradictions both in usool and furoo`. In this section here, he has addressed the awful state of hanfees who could not provide a single authentic evidence for permitting wudhoo with nabeedh but instead odiously & barefacedly went onto to claim that there is ijmaa about impermissibility of performing wudhoo with other liquids. And wudhoo with other liquids were made permissible by their qiyaasee counterparts!

أمثلة من تناقض القياسيين:
فمن ذلك أنهم أجازوا الوضوء بنبيذ التمر وقاسوا في أحد القولين عليه سائر الأنبذة وفي القول الآخر لم يقيسوا عليه فإن كان هذا القياس حقا فقد تركوه وإن كان باطلا فقد استعملوه ولم يقيسوا عليه الخل ولا فرق بينهما وكيف كان نبيذ التمر تمرة طبية وماء طهورا ولم يكن الخل عنبة طيبة وماء طهورا والمرق لحما طيبا وماء طهورا ونقيع المشمش والزبيب كذلك فإن ادعوا الإجماع على عدم الوضوء بذلك فليس فيه إجماع فقد

And they did not make qiyaas with vinegar ( meaning analogically making other liquids permissible based on the qiyaas al-hanafee about nabeedh-ut-Tamr) when there is no difference between the twoSo Ibn al-Qayyim rahimahullaah questions: how is it that with regards to nabeedh you claim, (it is a mixture of) Dates that are palatable and water that is pure; and you disagree about vinegar (being a mixture of) grapes that are palatable and water that is pure? And broth (of) meat is palatable and water that is pure? The extracts of Apricot and rasins likewise..and your claim is that there is an ijmaa of wudhoo not being permissible with these liquids(ibn al-Qayyim says) : there is no ijmaa regarding this matter!

قال الحسن بن صالح بن حي وحميد بن عبد الرحمن: "يجوز الوضوء بالخل وإن كان الإجماع كما ذكرتم فهلا قستم المنع من الوضوء بالنبيذ على ما أجمعوا عليه من المنع من الوضوء بالخل فإن قلتم اقتصرنا على موضع النص ولم نقس عليه قيل لكم فهلا سلكتم ذلك في جميع نصوصه واقتصرتم على محالها الخاصة ولم تقيسوا عليها فإن قلتم لأن هذا خلاف القياس قيل لكم فقد صرحتم أن ما ثبت على خلاف القياس يجوز القياس عليه ثم هذا يبطل أصل القياس فإنه إذا جاز ورود الشريعة بخلاف القياس علم أن القياس ليس من الحق وأنه عين الباطل فإن الشريعة لا ترد بخلاف الحق أصلا ثم من قاعدتكم أن خبر الواحد إذا خالف الأصول لم يقبل وفي أي الأصول وجدتم ما يجوز التطهير به خارج المصر والقرية ولا يجوز التطهير به داخلهما فإن قالوا اقتصرنا في ذلك على موضع النص قيل فهلا اقتصرتم به على خارج مكة فقط حيث جاء الحديث وكيف ساغ لكم قياس الغسل من

Ibn al-Qayyim quoted Hasan bin Saleh bin Hayy and Humaid bin Abd-ar-Rahmaan saying: It is permissible to make wudhoo with Vinegar.

[See I`laam Volume 1]

So this was the state of hanafee fuqahaa of Shaam, Koofah & Basrah, lets say, around 800 A.H. that wudhoo with other liquids (except Nabeedh) is impermissible & there is IJMAA concerning it. But what has happened to the later ones? Did they switch pitches? If you and your muqallideen fuqahaa are practising taqleed generation by generation, then you should have stuck to such a claim and defend it; for it has originated from your forefathers (in taqleed)?

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Abu Abd Ar Rahman Abd Al Adheem Ibn Faheem ibn Zia ibn Ma'een (KSA/ Bangalore, India)
Posts: 305
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Later Hanafeeyah Blind Followed Hasan Bin Saleh & Humaid Bin Ziyaad Contradicting Their Own Hanafee Forefathers

Evidence 1

الَ فِي النِّهَايَةِ : لَكِنَّ الْمَنْقُولَ عَنْ الْأَسَاتِذَةِ أَنَّهُ يَجُوزُ حَتَّى إنَّ أَوْرَاقَ الْأَشْجَارِ وَقْتَ الْخَرِيفِ تَقَعُ فِي الْحِيَاضِ فَيَتَغَيَّرُ مَاؤُهَا مِنْ حَيْثُ اللَّوْنُ وَالطَّعْمُ وَالرَّائِحَةُ ثُمَّ إنَّهُمْ يَتَوَضَّئُونَ مِنْهَا مِنْ غَيْرِ نَكِيرٍ ، وَكَذَا أَشَارَ فِي شَرْحِ الطَّحَاوِيِّ إلَيْهِ وَلَكِنَّ شَرْطَهُ أَنْ يَكُونَ بَاقِيًا عَلَى رِقَّتِهِ ، أَمَّا إذَا غَلَبَ عَلَيْهِ غَيْرُهُ فَصَارَ بِهِ ثَخِينًا فَلَا يَجُوزُ

[Inaayah Sharh al Hidaayah Juz 1 Page 96]

Evidence 2

وَذَكَرَ الْإِسْبِيجَابِيُّ أَنَّ الْغَلَبَةَ تُعْتَبَرُ أَوَّلًا مِنْ حَيْثُ اللَّوْنُ ، ثُمَّ مِنْ حَيْثُ
الطَّعْمُ ثُمَّ مِنْ حَيْثُ الْأَجْزَاءُ ، وَفِي الْيَنَابِيعِ لَوْ نَقَعَ الْحِمَّصَ وَالْبَاقِلَاءَ وَتَغَيَّرَ لَوْنُهُ وَطَعْمُهُ وَرِيحُهُ يَجُوزُ الْوُضُوءُ بِهِ

[Tabayyanal Haqaaiq Sharh Kanz Baab Taharathul Maai Al-Muthawadha bihi 1/83]

If  chickpeas and broad beans are steeped in water and if the colour and taste and odour changes, it is permissible to make wudhoo with it.

Evidence - 3

وَفِي الْيَنَابِيعِ لَوْ نُقِعَ الْحِمَّصُ وَالْبَاقِلَاءُ وَتَغَيَّرَ لَوْنُهُ وَطَعْمُهُ وَرِيحُهُ يَجُوزُ التَّوَضِّي بِهِ فَإِنْ طُبِخَ

[Fathul Qadeer Volume 1 Page 126]          

If  chickpeas and broad beans are steeped in water and if the colour and taste and odour changes, it is permissible to make wudhoo with it.

Evidence - 4

وَفِي الْيَنَابِيعِ لَوْ نُقِعَ الْحِمَّصُ وَالْبَاقِلَاءُ وَتَغَيَّرَ لَوْنُهُ وَطَعْمُهُ وَرِيحُهُ يَجُوزُ الْوُضُوءُ بِهِ .

If  chickpeas and broad beans are steeped in water and if the colour and taste and odour changes, it is permissible to make wudhoo with it.
[al-Bahr-ar-Raqaaiq Sharh Kanz Volume 1 Page 262]

So you force upon common masses taqleed al-hanafee and inject these views of majhool ones...ALL IN THE NAME OF ABU HANEEFAH!!! So where is Abu Haneefah rahimahullaah and where have the several generations of hanafee scholars (muqallid?) & common masses deviated?

Refuge of Allaah is sought from this type of taqleed!

03-03-2008 @ 8:11 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Abu Abd Ar Rahman Abd Al Adheem Ibn Faheem ibn Zia ibn Ma'een (KSA/ Bangalore, India)
Posts: 305
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Refutation of Jalal-ad-deen as-Suyuti rahimahullaah on Hanafeeyah

ومنها : كثرة الاحتياط في مذهبه ، وقلته في مذهب غيره .

فمن ذلك : الاحتياط في العبادات ، وأعظمها شأناً : الصلاة ، فمن أدى صلاته على مذهب الشافعي ، كان على يقين من صحتها ، ومن أداها على مذهب مخالف ، وقع الخلاف في صحة صلاته من وجوه

إجازتهم الوضوء في السفر بنبيذ التمر،

وتطهير البدن والثوب عن النجاسات بالمائعات ،

وأجازوا الصلاة في جلد الكلب المذبوح من غير دباغ

وأجازوا الوضوء بغير نية ولا ترتيب ،

وأسقطوه في مس الفرج والملامسة ،

وأجازوا الصلاة على ذرق الحمام مع قدر الدرهم من النجاسات الجامدة

أو ربع الثوب من البول ،

، أو مع كشف بعض العورة

وأبطلوا تعيين التكبير والقراءة

وأجازوا القرآن منكوساً وبالفارسية

وأسقطوا وجوب الطمأنينة في الركوع والسجود والإعتدال من الركوع وبين السجدتين ،

والتشهد والصلاة على النبي ( صلى الله عليه و على آله و سلم ) في الصلاة مع الخروج عنها بالحديث

وأبطلنا نحن الصلاة في هذه الوجوه ،

وأوجبنا الإعادة على من صلى خلف واحد من هؤلاء ،

And from it is abundance of precaution in the Madhhab of his (Imam Shafee rahimahullah) and its insufficiency in the other madhhab (Madhhab Hanafee)

Therefore from that: The (exemplary) precautions in the Ibaadaath (matters pertaining to worship of Allaah) , and the tremendously great position and affair (from it): the Salaah and whosoever performed the Salaah upon the madhhab of Shafee (which is purely based on hadeeth of Messenger of Allaah) then he shall have yaqeen (certainity) of its Sihah (strength and validity with Khushoo and attentiveness)

[ Note:- Khushoo is sometimes an action of the heart like fear, and sometimes of the body, like calmness/stillness and it is said: Both of them must be presentOthers say: It is something found in the soul which manifest itself in stillness of the body parts and agrees with what is required for worship Ibn Hajar in Fath Vol 2. 225]

And whosoever performs (Salah) upon the madhhab al-mukhaalif (Madhhab al-Hanafee based on rai and qiyaas) will be confused due to it being controversial and questionable with regards to the Sihah of Salaah on account of the following reasons:

1.Their making it permissible to perform wudhoo in journey with intoxicating nabeedh.

2.Permissibility of purifying the body and thowb from impurities using fluids (chick pea, baakhalla mixed with water etc.

3.Permissibility of performing salah with dog skin not slaughtered in tannery

4.Permissibility of performing wudhoo without niyyah ( against the hadeeth) and without any sequence ( against the hadeeth).

5.Permissibility of performing salah even if a dirham of hard impurities from excretions or droppings.

6.Or a quarter of thowb/garment having urine.

7.Or even if some of the awrah are exposed (during Salah its no problem)

8.And their annulment of specifying Takbeer and Qiraath

9.Permissibility of reciting the Quraan in backward direction (or upside down) and even in Farsee language.

10.They dropped the obligation/rukn of Ithminaan in Rukoo and Sujood and Itidaal during rukoo and between two sajdahs.

11.Dropping also Thashahhud and Durood upon the Prophet Sallallahu alaihi wa sallam and exiting the Salaah by talk.

12.And due to these reasons we deemed the salaah to be baatil.

And we enjoined and obligation of repetition of salaah upon the one who prayed behind one of these (hanafees).

Taken from Jaleel al-Mawaahib Fee Ikhthilaaf-il-Madhaahib

03-03-2008 @ 8:12 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Abu Abd Ar Rahman Abd Al Adheem Ibn Faheem ibn Zia ibn Ma'een (KSA/ Bangalore, India)
Posts: 305
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Qiyaas Does Not End - Drinking Wine!!!

Evidence 1

الْبَابُ الثَّانِي فِي الْمُتَفَرِّقَاتِ  إذَا شَرِبَ تِسْعَةَ أَقْدَاحٍ مِنْ نَبِيذِ التَّمْرِ فَأُوجِرَ الْعَاشِرَ فَسَكِرَ لَمْ يُحَدَّ ؛

If someone drinks nine glasses (size unspecified?) of nabeedh and if he gets drunk with the tenth there is no hadd (punishment)

[See Fataawa Aalamgeeri Part 45 Page 92]

Evidence 2

(وَ) حلّ (نَبِيذُ التَّمْرِ والزَّبيبِ مَطْبُوخاً أَدْنَى طَبْخَةٍ) بأن طُبِخَ حتّى نَضِجَ (وَإِنْ اشْتَدَّ، إذَا شَرِبَ مَا لَمْ يُسْكِرْ بِلاَ نِيَّةِ لَهْوٍ وَطَرَبٍ)

بل بنية تقوِّي

As for nabeedh made from dates or rasins and it is lighly cooked, if he drinks that as long as he does not get intoxicated for amusement or ravishment but with the intention of strength or reinforcement, it is halaal.

[Hidaayah & Also see Sharh Waqayah Volume 3 Page 182 I took this from this book]

Evidence 3

وقيل: السَّكَرُ: نبيذٌ، وهو عصير العنب والزبيب والتمر إذا طُبِخَ حتّى ذهب ثلثاه، ثم تُرِكَ حتّى اشتدّ. وهو حلالٌ عند أبي حنيفة

It is said: Intoxication: Nabeedh which is a drink (made from) grapes, rasins, dates, if it is cooked until a third of it disappears and then (some more) of it is discarded until it becomes strong (intoxicating), then it is halaal with Abee Haneefah.

[Also see Sharh Waqayah Volume 3 Page 125]

Evidence 4

ولم يُشترط في نبيذ العسل وما عُطِف عليه الطبخُ، لأنّ قليله لا يدعو إلى كثيره. ثم حلّ ذلك (في) قول أبي حنيفة وأبي يوسف، فلا

يحدّ شاربه وإن سكر منه

So even if he is intoxicated, there is no hadd with Abee Haneefah and Abee Yousuf!

[Also see Sharh Waqayah Volume 3 Page 127]

Evidence 5

(والسكران من لا يفرق بين) الرجل والمرأة و (السماء والارض.
وقالا: من يختلط كلامه) غالبا، فلو نصفه مستقيما فليس بسكران.

[Durr Mukhtaar Juz 4 Page 207]

The one intoxicated/boozy who cannot distinguish between a man and a woman, sky and earth. (They said): who mixes up his speech excessively, if he is half stable then he is not drunk!

Now Anwar Shah Kashmeeree & Deoboos should be questioned, how can someone who drinks WATER mixed with ICE get intoxicated? Kashmeerees should test it out and inform us!!!

06-03-2008 @ 1:26 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Abu Abd Ar Rahman Abd Al Adheem Ibn Faheem ibn Zia ibn Ma'een (KSA/ Bangalore, India)
Posts: 305
Joined: Nov 2002
Fatwa From Deoband - Shaamee al-Hanafee Joins The Club

Questioner: Abdul Azeem
Date: 4th of March 2007

Question: Assalaamuaalaykum, What is the correct urdu translation of Nabeedh-ut-Tamr, that (nabeedh), which is permissible in hanafee madh`hab to perform wudhoo ?

Answer: Dates are mixed in water in order to make it sweet which is used for drinking (this resultant water is called as nabeedh), the Mu'thimadh Madh`hab of ahnaaf is that it is NOT permissible to perform wudhoo with it. Imam Abu Haneefah earlier had this opinion but he retracted from it later on.

Then he quoted something from Shamee al-Hanafee,

There are three opinions related from Abee Haneefah with regards to nabeedh...the third which is his final stance, that one should only make tayammum and he returned to this qawl and this is what was said by Aboo Yousuf and rest of the 3 imaams ( meaning Shaf'ee, Maalik and Ahmed rahimahumullaah).

This was adopted by Thahaawee and this is the correct acceptable mu'thimadh position with us..(Shaamee in his fataawa volume 1).

This fatwa was sent to me by MUFTEE FROM DAR-UL-ULOOM Deoband.

So now we have a SEAL from deoband upon our claim that Khaleel Ahmed Saharanpuree's opinion was not the mu'thimadh position of hanafee madh`hab!!!


If this the case, then what is your gripe with the muhadditheen Shams-ul-Haq al-Adheemaabaadee and Abd-ar-Rahmaan al-Mubarakfooree rahimahumullaah? Indeed thier criticisms were just and based upon knowledge. They were more knowledgeable about hanafee madh`hab then Anwar Shah & Khaleel Ahmed!

Then who is a muqallid and who is a scholar? And who are the followers? So, if someone came to Khaleel Ahmed he would give a different fatwa and if you were to approach another deobandee, he would give another one!

Then what should a common man do? Taqleed? Of whom?


So was there ever a pure taqleed of Abee Haneefah? Its all taqleed-cocktail!

Then how can someone claim whatever Khaleel Ahmed Saharanpuree writes in his book is the mu`thimadh position? Given the fact that the swords of Turks were upon Deoband?

Attached Filefatwa-deoband.gif (93 Kbytes)

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Abu Abd Ar Rahman Abd Al Adheem Ibn Faheem ibn Zia ibn Ma'een (KSA/ Bangalore, India)
Posts: 305
Joined: Nov 2002
Shaamee al-Hanafee Flips, Grips, Trips & Dips Back Into Taqleed

As you can see above, Shaamee al-Hanafee declares the muthimadh position of hanafeeyah to be making only Tayammum in the absence of water and nabeedh is deprecated!

What about drinking nabeedh? Does Shaamee al-Hanafee declare it haraam?

قَالَ الأتقاني : وَقَدْ أَطْنَبَ الْكَرْخِيُّ فِي رِوَايَةِ الْآثَارِ عَنْ الصَّحَابَةِ وَالتَّابِعِينَ بِالْأَسَانِيدِ الصِّحَاحِ فِي تَحْلِيلِ النَّبِيذِ الشَّدِيدِ

So the shadeed(Strong) nabeedh was made halal by Sahabah? And Karkhee brought narrations from Sahabah and Taabi`een with Saheeh Isnaad?
We say as Abdullaah Ibn Mubarak said above, bring ONE saheeh narration from any of the sahabah radhiAllaahu anhum.

وَالْحَاصِلُ أَنَّ الْأَكَابِرَ مِنْ أَصْحَابِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ وَأَهْلِ بَدْرٍ كَعُمَرَ وَعَلِيٍّ وَعَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ مَسْعُودٍ وَأَبِي مَسْعُودٍ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُمْ كَانُوا يُحِلُّونَهُ ، وَكَذَا الشَّعْبِيُّ وَإِبْرَاهِيمُ النَّخَعِيّ .

Audhubillaah! He claims that what is achieved from this (discussion) is that the Akaabir of the Ashaab of Rasoolullaah Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam and Ahlil Badar like  
1) Umar
2) Alee
3) Abdallaah Ibn Masood
4) Abee Mas'ood [RadhiAllaahu Anhum]
Have made it halal

And similarly, Shabee & Ibraheem an-Nakhaee.

As for Sha`bee and Ibraaheem an-Nakha`ee rahimahumullaah then Abdullaah Ibn Mubarak's statement above in his debate with the Kofiyyeen is sufficient!

So perhaps Shaamee al-Hanafee is ill informed of the debate. Time to take naseehah from this debate else deoboos should stop claiming that they follow Abdullaah ibn al-Mubarak rahimahullaah!

13-03-2008 @ 3:04 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Abu Abd Ar Rahman Abd Al Adheem Ibn Faheem ibn Zia ibn Ma'een (KSA/ Bangalore, India)
Posts: 305
Joined: Nov 2002
This Is Why Qurtubee Criticizes Them In His Tafseer

Imam Qurtubee rahimahullah said:-This proves that the madhhab of Abee Haneefah and the Koofeeeen and those who are of this opinion is BAATIL! Based on what they claim that apart from (nabeedh) what is made from grapes nothing else is wine. And intoxicants made from others (Nabeedh Tamr, Nabeedh asl, Nabeedh Jow, Nabeedh Barley) then the name Khamr is not to be given to them but they should be named Nabeedh.

Attached Filequrtubee.jpg (91 Kbytes)

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