Ibnnoor | -- 07-07-2008 @ 7:02 PM | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Assalamu Alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuhu!! All Praise Is Due To Allah And May The Peace And Blessings Of Allah Be Upon His Messenger Mohammed Ibn Abdullah(Sallahu Alaihi Wassalam)And His Family And All His Companions(RAdhiallahu Anhum)! I wish to know what is the stance of the salaf in regards to debates with the people of bida'h and the kuffar!I had a talk with somepeople who claimed the proof for debating with ahlul bidah as "Ibn Abbas(radhiallahu anhu) going to the khawarije!" I told them that some of our salaf had warned against debating but they said this athar of Ibn Abbas is strong daleel! And they quote ayahs for proof of debates with the kuffar! Inshallah Someone could give me the actually status of debates in Islam!! Jazakhulla khair Wa Barakallah Feekum,Nishil
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masjidsiddeeq | -- 08-07-2008 @ 2:51 AM | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
wa alaykum assalaam wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh Imaam Ahmad (d. 241, raheemahullaah) said in Usool As Sunnah: 6. And the abandonment of quarrelling, argumentation and controversy in the religion. Imaam as-Saaboonee (d. 449H) said about Ahlus-Sunnah, "They follow the Salafus-Saalih the Imaams and the Scholars of the Muslims, and they cling to the firm deen that they clung to and to the clear truth. And they hate Ahul-Bid'ah (the People of Innovation) who innovate into the Deen that which is not from it. They do not love them and they do not keep company with them. They do not listen to their sayings, nor sit with them, nor argue with them about the Deen, nor debate with them. Rather, they protect their ears from hearing their futility; things, which if they pass through the ears and settle in the hearts, will cause harm and cause doubts and wicked ideas to appear. And concerning this Allaah, the Mighty and Majestic, sent down: "And when you see people engaged in vain discourse about Our Signs, then turn away from them unless they turn to a different theme.ý [Soorah al-Anýaam (6):68] Risaalah fil-I'tiqaad Ahlis-Sunnah Ashaabil-Hadeeth, p. 100, of Imaam asSaaboonee. And also, from Usool as-sunnah: 18. And that he does not argue with anyone, nor dispute and nor should he learn [about how to make] argumentation [in such matters]. ___________________________ Masjid Aboo Bakr As-Siddeeq 1840 Columbia Drive Decatur, GA 30032 404-282-8855 assalafi.com
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Ibnnoor | -- 08-07-2008 @ 12:52 PM | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Waalaikum Salam Warahmatullahi wabarakatuhu!! Shukran!Like I mentioned i had mentioned some of this!but they say that the opinion of the salaf should be only accepted if they have supporting hadeeth!otherwise it becomes like taqleed!I warned against sitting with the Ahlul bidah!but they say there is no hadeeth supporting it! Jazakhulla khair Wa Barakallah Feekum,Nishil
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abu.jamaal | -- 12-07-2008 @ 4:26 AM | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Assalaamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullah May Allah bless you all who are trying your best to be upon the way that He loves. The way of Rasullullah salalaho alaihi wa salam and the way of the companions. Below are some ayaat, ahaadeeth, and statements from the ulamaa about debating.
So as we read debating is permissible as noted is Surah Nahl (16) ayat 125 where Allah said [and debate with them with that which is best,] and he also said in Suratul Ankaboot (29) ayat 46 [And do not debate with the People of the Book, except it be with that which is best.] So Allah gives permission to debate. What about the impermissibility of debating? We find the impermissibility in the same ayat in Suratul Ankaboot (29) ayat 46 where Allah says: [except with such of them as do wrong;] Ibn Kathir rahimahullah says about this ayat:
We understand about the ones who do not accept the Quran and the authentic sunnah of Rasullullah salalaho alaihi wa salam that we should stop debating with them as Allah mentioned and as ibn Kathir rahimahullah explained. Now some brothers and sisters may say that the ayat in Suratul Ankaboot is pertaining to the People of the Book. We say to them the following ayaat and hadeeth. Allah says in Suratul Faatiha that we pray at least 17 times a day:
So we see that some of the Muslims will follow the way of the People of the Book, and Allah tells us how to deal with them pertaining to this specific matter of debating. Shaykh Ibriheem bin Aamir Ar-Ruhaylee hafidhthahullah mentioned in his book Mawqif Ahlus Sunnah min Ahlul Ahwaa wal Bid'ah Vol 2 page 547, the statement of Imam ibn 'Uthaymeen rahimahullah from his book Sharh Lumatul 'Itiqaad page 110-111:
So read the example Rasullullah salalaho alaihi wa salam gives about a good sitting and good companionship, and a bad sitting and bad companionship. And from the explanation of Imam as-Saaboonee rahimahullah our brothers from Masjid Abi Bakr as-Siddeeq shared with us.
In order for us to receive a complete understanding of the ayat from Suratul An'aam let us read the tafsir of it insha Allah. We will read ayaat 66-70.
Below is the tafsir of the above ayaat from Tafsir Ibn Kathir.
I leave you with an example of how this is implemented by our imam, Imam Al-Albanee rahimahullah. Taken from: Debate with a Jihadee
So, take the example of our salaf in these matters ya ikwaa barakallaho feekum (may Allah bless you all) Assalaamu Aalikum wa rahmatullah Abu Jamaal Shadeed ibn Holmes
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sajid_chauhan_81 | -- 21-12-2008 @ 6:27 AM | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Consider the following quote from the book "Kitaab Sharh us-Sunnah" by Imaam Al-Barbahaaree (Translated by brother Abu Talhah Dawud Burbank and posted on the salafipublications.com homepage)
It should be noted that word used for "dispute" in the above ayaats and the hadeeth is "jidaal" which is the same word that is used in Suratul Nahl ayat 125 and Suratul Ankaboot (29)ayat 46 and was translated as "debate" in that case. Consider the following anecdote from the life of Imaam Maalik rahimahullaah. It is a slightly modified transcript of an extract from the CD set "Usool us Sunnah by Imam Ahmad Rahimulah" by Shaykh Ubayd Al Jaabiree Hafidulah translated by Abdulilah lahmami(contact www.markazmuaadh.com to get hold of this)
Finally, here is the narration of Imaam Barbahaaree rahimahullah from the same book Kitaab Sharh us Sunnah
May Allaah facilitate the publishing of the english translation by Br. Aboo Khadeejah hafithahullah of the explanation of this wonderful book by Sh. Fawzaan hafithahullah. Aameen.
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sajid_chauhan_81 | -- 04-01-2009 @ 5:16 AM | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Another example of how, when and by whom a debate is to be done. Click http://salafitalk.net/st/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=6&Topic=2400 Allamah Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab al Banna hafithahullah debates and refutes a defender of Usaamah ibn Laaden(may Allaah guide him or destroy him).
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sajid_chauhan_81 | -- 14-01-2009 @ 6:31 PM | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Allaamah Rabee hafithahullah said,
Quote taken from http://salafitalk.net/st/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=9&Topic=7483
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sajid_chauhan_81 | -- 16-01-2009 @ 6:14 PM | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Listen to a portion of Imaam Albani debate with students of the Sufi-Ashari, Hasan ali Saqqaf by clicking http://sunnah.tv/video/watch.cfm?v=epgkmf Thus debate is not completely prohibited based on the ayaah and based on the fact that Ibn Abbaas debated khawaarij and also the recent Scholars have done but it has to be used as the last resort and it is done by the Ulemah and not the common Muslim or the beginner Student of Knowledge. Ofcourse, the asl is to avoid even sitting with Ahlul Bidaah leave alone debating/arguing/discussing/disputing with them. WAllaahu aalam
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sajid_chauhan_81 | -- 16-01-2009 @ 6:31 PM | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Click http://www.salafitalk.net/st/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=9&Topic=5935 to read a beneficial post by Br. Mustafa George hafithahullah. He has compiled good notes on the affair of advising, condemning and debating, taken from two works of our Salaf- As- Saleh. The first book is entitled: ýThe Character of the Scholarsý, by Imam Al Ajuree (died 360h). The second is entitled: ýThe Difference Between Advising and Condemningý, by Al Hafith Ibn Rajab Al Hanbali (died 795h) -may Allah have mercy on them both. Do read the beneficial work of Imaam Ibn Rajab rahimahullah at http://al-ibaanah.com/cms/pdf_files/49.pdf It should be noted, as the author(Imam Ibn Rajab) states, that his treatise only applies to Ahlus-Sunnah, and as for the innovators and people of desires, then these guidelines do not apply to them.
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sajid_chauhan_81 | -- 01-10-2009 @ 9:51 PM | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Here is another hadeeth on the subject. 'A'isha reported Allaah's Messenger (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) as saying: The most despicable amongst persons in the eye of Allaah is one who tries to fall into dispute with others. Saheeh Muslim No. 6447
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