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Topic: Imaam an-Nasaa'ee BANNED from study circles & the man who memorized a MILLION hadeeth...!
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 Moosaa
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Abul-'Abbaas Moosaa ibn John Richardson
(Jeddah, Saudi Arabia)
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Member
Posts: 1280
Joined: Sep 2002
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| abu.talhah.a
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Member
Posts: 136
Joined: Nov 2002
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| al.Arabaanee
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Abu Khadijah Abdurrahman ibn Tony
(Springfield Gardens, NY USA)
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Member
Posts: 153
Joined: Sep 2002
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As salamu alaikum
How do we understand the "animosity" between Al-Haarith ibn Miskeen and Imaam An-Nasaa'ee? It is not befitting of two Salafi Scholars to hate each other so how do we understand this? In addition, are there examples of other situations like this with regards to the Imaams of the past or present? It was said that Imaam Al-Bukhaaree had some issues with a man (or one of his Shaikhs) so he would narrate from the man with a name that the man was not well known by. Is this correct? May Allah have mercy upon the Scholars of Ahlus-sunnah.
Jazaakumullahu khairaa
أبوعبداللّه عبدالرّحمن بن توني
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| Moosaa
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Abul-'Abbaas Moosaa ibn John Richardson
(Jeddah, Saudi Arabia)
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Member
Posts: 1280
Joined: Sep 2002
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"It is not befitting of two Salafi Scholars to hate each other"
I don't know how this was understood from the article. As for what exactly, if anything, was between al-Haarith and an-Nasaa'ee, then I don't know. It seems clear from an-Nasaa'ee's actions that he had nothing against al-Haarith, especially since he continued taking from his shaykh even after he was dealt with wrongly...
And the 'ulamaa' of the early generations used to refute each other, and sometimes they would use very harsh words in those refutations. We wonder if those people who always claim that the Salaf never dealt with each other harshly, have they actually read any of their books...?! Read Ibn Hazm's al-Muhallaa, or Ibn 'Arabee's Ahkaam al-Qur'aan for lots of examples...
Moosaa ibn John Richardson
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سبحانك اللهم وبحمدك
أشهد أن لا إله إلا أنت
أستغفرك وأتوب إليك
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| al.Arabaanee
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Abu Khadijah Abdurrahman ibn Tony
(Springfield Gardens, NY USA)
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Member
Posts: 153
Joined: Sep 2002
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As salamu alaikum
The thesaurus on Microsoft Word 2000 gives the following synonyms for the word animosity:
Hostility
Hatred
Loathing
Ill feeling
Ill will
Enmity
Bitterness
Acrimony
Rancor
Dislike
Antagonism
Therefore, the word appeared to have a broad meaning in the English language. The former post was posted in order to get clarity so that no one would think that the Ulamaa' of Ahlus-sunnah would have ill feeling against each other. We have heard and maybe read many examples of the Scholars of the Salaf and Khalaf refuting one another. We also recall hearing Shaikh Ubaid Al-Jaabiree say on a recording something to the effect of the meaning that the difference between Ahlus-sunnah refuting Ahlus-sunnah and Ahlus-sunnah refuting Ahl-Bid'ah is that when Ahlus-sunnah refute each other then they do so in way that the honor of the other is preserved. We can't recall the title of the recording. At any rate, we ask Allah (Azza wa Jall) to reward you greatly because this article was very beneficial.
أبوعبداللّه عبدالرّحمن بن توني
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| abu.anas.al-hindi
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Abu Anas Hasan Ahmed
(London)
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Member
Posts: 27
Joined: Oct 2002
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Salamu alaik,
Is it not true that the 2 people you referred to: Ibn Hazm and Ibn al Arabee are from those who made Ta'weel of the Sifaat in the works you mentioned and elsewhere? Are they really Salafee in aqeeda?
As for al Nasaa'ee is it true that he slandred Mu'aawiya (ra) and was beaten for it when he entered Palestine and then died in Makkah?
Wassalam
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| al.akhdar
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unspecified unspecified
(unspecified)
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Member
Posts: 67
Joined: Sep 2002
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As for what was mentioned about animosity between Imaam An-Nasaa?ee and his Sheikh Al-Haarith ibn Miskeen, then this was not a reason for his barring him from his lessons, rather it was mentioned that the reason for him being barred from the lessons was that when An-Nasaa?ee first came to study in Egypt he was a young student and when he entered upon Al-Haarith ibn Miskeen he was wearing clothing that Al-Haarith Miskeen disapproved of, he was at the time wearing a Qalinswah (cap) and Qabaa? (type of garment), and Al-Haarith was concerned about matters that were connected to the Sultaan, so he was afraid that he (An-Nisaa?ee) had come to spy on him, so he prohibited him from entering his lessons with the other students, so An-Nasaa?ee used to come and sit outside the door and listen. [See Siyar ?alaam an-Nubalaa 14/130]
As for what was mentioned with regards to Mua?awiyah ibn abee Sufyaan, may Allah be pleased with him, it is mentioned that in the last years of his life An-Nasaa?ee traveled to Damascus and at the time the people of Shaam exhibited very strong love for Banee Umayyah, and from them Mu?aawiyah ibn Abee Sufyaan, may Allah be pleased with him, and An-Nasaa?ee did not find much mention of Alee, may Allah be pleased with him, so he authored the book Al-Khasaa?is in the virtues of Alee.
Al-Haafidh Adh-Dhahabee says in As-Siyar [14/129]: Al-Wazeer ibn Hinzaabah said: I heard Muhammad ibn Musa Al-Ma?muunee, the companion of An-Nasaa?ee, say: ?I heard a people rebuke Abu Abdir-Rahmaan An-Nasaa?ee for his book Al-Khasaais in the virtues of Alee, and not writing about the virtues of the two sheikhs (Abu Bakr and Umar), so I mentioned that to him and he said: ?When I entered Damascus there were many who had inclined [away] from Alee, so I authored the book Al-Khasaa?is (virtues of Ali), hoping that Allah would guide them.? Then he authored the book Fadaa?il As-Sahaabah (the virtues of the companions), and it was said to him, and I was listening: ?Why don?t you gather the virtues of Mu?aawiyah?? He replied: ?What shall I gather? The hadeeth: ?O Allah! Do not fill his stomach.? And the questioner was silent.
I say (Adh-Dhahabee): ?Perhaps it can be said that this is a virtue of Mu?awiyah because of his (the Prophet?s) statement: ?O Allah! Whoever I have cursed [from the believers] make that a charity and a mercy for him.? [End of quote of Adh-Dhahabee]
This understanding of Adh-Dhahabee is also the understanding of others from the Imaams of Hadeeth, and can be seen in the chaptering of Imaam Muslim, as he brings this hadeeth in his Saheeh in the chapter: Whoever the Prophet curses or makes dua against him, and he is not deserving of it, it is a charity, and mercy for him.
Imaam An-Nawawee says in the explanation of Saheeh Muslim [17/371] about the hadeeth ((O Allah! Do not fill his stomach.)): ?As for his dua against Mu?aawiyah to not fill him when he tarried, in this are two statements: one of them: that it was just a statement on the tongue with no intention [behind it], and the second: that it was a sanction for his delay. Muslim understood from this hadeeth that Mu?awiyah did not deserve this dua against him and therefore collected it in this chapter, and others bring it as a virtue of Mu?aawiyah; because in reality it became a dua for him.? [End of quote of an-Nawawee]
As for the story of An-Nasaa?ee being beaten and dying in Makkah then it comes in Siyar ?alaam an-Nubalaa also [14/132-133], Adh-Dhahabee says: ?Abu Abdillah ibn Mandah on the authority of Hamzah al-?aqabee al-Misree and others, that an-Nisaa?ee left Egypt in the last years of his life and went Damascus and was asked about Mu?aawiyah and what has come in his virtues, and he said: ?Will he not be pleased until he is favored?? So they began beating him on both sides until he was thrown out of the masjid, he was then taken to Makkah and died there.? Then Adh-Dhahabee says: ?This is what was said but what is correct is he was taken to ar-Ramlah.??
He continues: ad-Daaraqutnee said: ?He went to make Hajj and was tried in Damascus, and when he was nearing death he said: ?Take me to Makkah.? So he was taken to Makkah and died there.?
It has been mentioned that perhaps An-Nasaa?ee had something of at-Tashayyu? with him as Adh-Dhahabee states himself in Siyar [14/133]: ??except that he had something of tashayyu? with him, and inclining away from those who quarreled with Alee, like Mu?awiyah and Amr, Allah pardon him.? Sheikh Abdul-Muhsin Abbaad mentioned in his in his first lesson of his classes on the Sunan of Imaam An-Nasaa?ee that perhaps An-Nasaa?ee said this in an attempt to steer the people away from ghuluww for individuals from what he saw there in Shaam of tremendous love for Banee Umayyah and from them Mu?aawiyah, may Allah be pleased with him.
With regards to the statement that he had something of at-Tashayyu? with him then it must be remembered that the he was not speaking of the extreme tashayyu? of the Raafidah. Imaam Adh-Dhahabee says in the biography of Abaan ibn Taghlib in Meezaan al-?Itdaal [1/118]: ?He was a staunch Shi?ee but was truthful. We say: ?For us is his truthfulness and his innovation is against him. So the questioner may ask, ?how is it permissible to label an innovator as trustworthy or be considered reliable, and upright? So how can the one who is the possessor of innovation be upright?
The answer: Is that innovation is of two types, minor innovation, like Shi?ism that is free from extremism, as this is the case with many of Tabi?een and those who followed them while possessing religion, piety, and truthfulness and if we were to reject their narrations there would disappear a large body of the Prophetic narrations, so this is an evident evil, then there is the major innovation like complete Rafd and extremism in it, and defamation of the two Sheikhs (Abu Bakr and Umar), may Allah be pleased with them both, and calling to that, this type are not depended upon whatsoever.
And also I can not recall right now one man from this type that is truthful and trustworthy, rather lying is their mark and hypocrisy is their sign, so how is the report of the one whose condition is like this accepted. By no means!
So the extreme Shi?ee according to Salaf in their time was one who spoke about Uthmaan, Az-Zubair, Talhah, Mu?aawiyyah, and those who fought against Alee, may Allah be pleased with him, but were opposed to cursing them. But the extreme Shi?ee in our time is the one who expels these noble companions from Islaam and also declared themselves free of the two sheikhs (Abu Bakr and Umar), so this one is astray, but Abaan did not speak about the two sheikhs (Abu Bakr and Umar) at all, rather perhaps he believed that Ali was better than them.? [End of quote from Al-Meezaan]
So there were from the Imaams of the past who had tashayyu? attributed to them but the tashayyu? here meaning their giving precedence to Alee in virtue, and perhaps withholding from mentioning the good of those who disputed with him from the companions, may Allah be pleased with them all. From these Imaams were Ibn Abee Haatim ar-Raazee, al-?Amash, Abdur-Razzaaq as-San?aanee, and others, may Allah have mercy upon all of them.
With regards to the statement, ?What shall I gather?, regarding the virtues of Mu?aawiyah, then Ibn Hajr mentions in Taqreeb at-Tahdheeb that Mu?aawiyah was from those who recorded the revelation, and there is no doubt that this is a tremendous virtue.
أهل الحديث هم أهل النبي وإن
لم يصحبوا نفسه أنفاسه صحبوا
Abul-Hasan Malik Adam Al-Akhdar
This message was edited by al.akhdar on 4-2-04 @ 9:53 PM
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| Moosaa
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Abul-'Abbaas Moosaa ibn John Richardson
(Jeddah, Saudi Arabia)
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Member
Posts: 1280
Joined: Sep 2002
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Abal-Hasan - May Allaah reward you generously!
An-Nasaa'ee: "When I entered Damascus there were many who had inclined [away] from Alee, so I authored the book Al-Khasaa?is (virtues of Ali), hoping that Allah would guide them."
What you mentioned reminds me of something Ash-Shaatibee realyed from Ibn Battah about the people of his time: "If I mentioned anything about ... Eemaan, they called me a murji', and if I mentioned anything about actions, they called me a qadaree... and if I mentioned something about the virtues of Aboo Bakr and 'Umar, they called me a naasibee, and if I mentioned something about Ahlul-Bayt, they called me a raafidhee, and if I remained silent about the tafseer of a verse or a hadeeth and did not answer except with the verse or hadeeth itself (without explanation), they called me a thaahiree, and if I answered with other than the texts (ie. with an explanation) they called me a baatinee..."
Then ash-Shaatibee said, "Rarely do you find a well-known 'aalim or a virtuous one mentioned, except that these kinds of affairs are cast at him, or some of them..." [al-I'tisaam 1/37-38, Ibn 'Affaan printing]
As for Arabaanee's question about the animosity or hatred that was supposedly between an-Nasaa'ee and al-Haarith, then Maalik's quote from ath-Thahabee gives more detail to the picture and thus there is no need to go further into that subject. The original word used by Shaykh Muhammad Aadam regarding what was between them was "khushoonah" which means "roughness / harshness / rudeness / etc", so "animosity" was a bit strong to use for it in the first place.
And as for the quote from Shaykh 'Ubayd, then this is something that he repeats all the time: That the mistake is corrected no matter who it comes from, the sunnee 'aalim who erred mistakenly is honored and the follower of his desires is not. However, this is our manhaj in how we respond to the mistakes of the people, and it is different than the issue of the reality of people's personalities and the fact that sometimes there does exist something between two people... I hope this is understood.
As for Aboo Anas' second question, then Maalik answered that, may Allaah reward him.
As for his first question, then Ibn Hazm was known for ta'teel of all of the Attributes, we ask Allaah for safety. He affirmed Allaah's Names without allowing them to have any individual meanings, which is in agreement with the Mu'tazilah's beliefs. However, as for his scholarship and contributions, then we are in dire need of them, as his book al-Muhallaa is one of the best and most relied upon books in the history of Islaam.
As for Ibn al-'Arabee, then I do not know what his position was on the sifaat. Perhaps if someone knows, they can post in shaa' Allaah.
And Allaah knows best.
Moosaa ibn John Richardson
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سبحانك اللهم وبحمدك
أشهد أن لا إله إلا أنت
أستغفرك وأتوب إليك
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| rickg
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Abu Hamza Ya'qub bin Rex Gungadoo
(Birmingham, UK)
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As-salaam-u-alaykum,
As we're are on this subject, I would be grateful if the brothers could clarify an issue. Brother Maalik refers to Imaam An-Nisaaee whereas brother Moosa refers to Imaam An-Nasaaee. Which is the correct name of the Imaam? I remember that on a tape Abu Tasneem Dawud Adib said that the correct name is An-Nasaaee but would like to hear from the other knowledgeable brothers on this forum.
Was-salaam
Abu Hamza Ya'qub ibn Rex Gungadoo
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| al.akhdar
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unspecified unspecified
(unspecified)
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Member
Posts: 67
Joined: Sep 2002
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Jazaanaa wa iyyaakum, and may Allah reward you Abul-Abbaas for the article on Bakkah.net.
As for the question what is found in the books of nasab (lineage) is an-Nasaa'ee with a fathah on the nun, as Muhammad ibn Adam Al-Ithyubee mentions in his explanation of the Sunan [1/13-14], he says: "an-Nasaa'ee with a fathah on the nun and seen, and after it alif and yaa nisbah (Yaa of ascription) this is an ascription to a town in Khurasaan, that is called Nasaa.."
In the book Mu'jaam al-Buldaan it is mentioned that the reason the town was given that name was that when the Muslims intented to come to Khurasaan to conquer it, it reached the people of that town and the men all fled leaving only women, so when the Muslims came they didn't see any men, so they said, 'These are only women, and women are not combatants, so we will postpone (ننسأ) fighting until the men return', so they left so it was therefore named Nasaa, and the correct ascription to it is an-Nasaa'ee, and it is said an-Niswee, and it is a must to to put a kasrah on the nun."
Muhammad ibn Adam also brings a line of poetry that was written to show the correct ascription:
و النسائيّ نسبة لنسأ مدينة في الوزن مثل سبأ
an-Nasaa'ee is an ascription to nasa'e
a city [name]on the same scale as saba'e
أهل الحديث هم أهل النبي وإن
لم يصحبوا نفسه أنفاسه صحبوا
Abul-Hasan Malik Adam Al-Akhdar
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27-03-2004 @ 4:10 AM
30-03-2004 @ 12:28 AM